CANCELLED

[firehawk12]

Posted by denodaeus:

Posted by Stewey:

Posted by firehawk12:
^
I don't see anyone doing anything fresh with Star Trek though. How can you? Short of setting it in the 40th century or something.

If you can hire people who can think out of the box you can. Just using a different premise can take it into new directions, just like DS9 for example.

This is difficult to do, especiall with the canon "bible" that binds the series down today. Look at the reception of Enterprise amongst non-fans? (Although often poorly) It tried to make some interesting changes to the universe, adding a bit of history, yet many want to "decanonize" it.

I feel, as long as that attitude exists (not necessarily abou the quality of Enterprise, but the fear of something new that isn't "conventional" Trek), then there will be many in the community who will reject anything other than the TNG gang in the holodeck.

Yeah. There's just too much baggage in Trek to be able to do any kind of new story without relying on all the crap that came before it.

Besides, there's nothing left to do anyway...

We had an "Earth is in Danger" story.
We now have "Explain everything in TOS" stories.

Short of going back to alien of the week shows, what else is there?

 

[Stewey]

Posted by denodaeus:

Posted by Stewey:

Posted by firehawk12:
^
I don't see anyone doing anything fresh with Star Trek though. How can you? Short of setting it in the 40th century or something.

If you can hire people who can think out of the box you can. Just using a different premise can take it into new directions, just like DS9 for example.

This is difficult to do, especiall with the canon "bible" that binds the series down today. Look at the reception of Enterprise amongst non-fans? (Although often poorly) It tried to make some interesting changes to the universe, adding a bit of history, yet many want to "decanonize" it.

I feel, as long as that attitude exists (not necessarily abou the quality of Enterprise, but the fear of something new that isn't "conventional" Trek), then there will be many in the community who will reject anything other than the TNG gang in the holodeck.

Something that is unconventional Trek is what I wanted from the start. The way I see it is, as long as the premise fits into the star Trek universe by not contradicting with what has come before, then I think Trek can lead off into any direction the writers want to go with.

Take DS9 for example, set in the Star Trek universe yet did something totally different to what has been conventionally been done on trek thus far. Take the prequel concept, I wanted that to be unconventional but it was cancelled out with the conventional Trek formula as well as not fitting in with the established Trek universe as it was already defined.

 

[firehawk12]

DS9 resorted to "aliens of the week" episodes too.

How many times did they take the Defiant/shuttlecraft out just to have cooky adventures?

Maybe there's something new in Trek... but I don't really see it.

 

[Stewey]

Posted by firehawk12:
DS9 resorted to "aliens of the week" episodes too.

How many times did they take the Defiant/shuttlecraft out just to have cooky adventures?

Maybe there's something new in Trek... but I don't really see it.

Not as often as Voyager or TNG. Look at it another way, no other Trek series devoted as much time to character development and ongoing stories than DS9.

 

[denodaeus]

Posted by denodaeus:

Posted by cooleddie74:
If I build a huge paper effigy of the UPN logo, set it ablaze and urinate on it in front of the Paramount Studios lot...would any of you be offended?

Not at all, if you couldn't tell.

I'm working on this one, but my avatar + this = THAT in the future:

 

[denodaeus]

Posted by Stewey:

Posted by denodaeus:

Posted by Stewey:

Posted by firehawk12:
^
I don't see anyone doing anything fresh with Star Trek though. How can you? Short of setting it in the 40th century or something.

If you can hire people who can think out of the box you can. Just using a different premise can take it into new directions, just like DS9 for example.

This is difficult to do, especiall with the canon "bible" that binds the series down today. Look at the reception of Enterprise amongst non-fans? (Although often poorly) It tried to make some interesting changes to the universe, adding a bit of history, yet many want to "decanonize" it.

I feel, as long as that attitude exists (not necessarily abou the quality of Enterprise, but the fear of something new that isn't "conventional" Trek), then there will be many in the community who will reject anything other than the TNG gang in the holodeck.

Something that is unconventional Trek is what I wanted from the start. The way I see it is, as long as the premise fits into the star Trek universe by not contradicting with what has come before, then I think Trek can lead off into any direction the writers want to go with.

Take DS9 for example, set in the Star Trek universe yet did something totally different to what has been conventionally been done on trek thus far. Take the prequel concept, I wanted that to be unconventional but it was cancelled out with the conventional Trek formula as well as not fitting in with the established Trek universe as it was already defined.

I think that was Berman's (I hate that I'm agreeing with him on this) point -- Star Trek as an idea might have been exhausted. There's only so much you can do flying around in a ship in search of new worlds.

I can understand that you're wanting something "dramatically different" that fits into canon, but with over 600 hours of screen time and stories already told, that might be somewhat difficult to do. Would it be Trek then? Even if it adheres to the current rules (canon), would it still have the "spirit" of Trek?

It's really hard to think about, isn't it?

 

[Ryan8bit]

Posted by Stewey:
Something that is unconventional Trek is what I wanted from the start. The way I see it is, as long as the premise fits into the star Trek universe by not contradicting with what has come before, then I think Trek can lead off into any direction the writers want to go with.

Take DS9 for example, set in the Star Trek universe yet did something totally different to what has been conventionally been done on trek thus far.

Well, to be fair, DS9 did contradict established things in the Star Trek universe as well.

 

[Stewey]

Posted by Ryan8bit:

Posted by Stewey:
Something that is unconventional Trek is what I wanted from the start. The way I see it is, as long as the premise fits into the star Trek universe by not contradicting with what has come before, then I think Trek can lead off into any direction the writers want to go with.

Take DS9 for example, set in the Star Trek universe yet did something totally different to what has been conventionally been done on trek thus far.

Well, to be fair, DS9 did contradict established things in the Star Trek universe as well.

To use an analagy, DS9 stole an apple, Enterprise stole a million quid.

My point is that mistakes usually can happen, its bound to with 4 series and 10 films. however if you plan to make a prequel to something, it makes sense to actually understand the source material to which it is being a prequel to. Thus, had that actually happened the mistakes would never happened on Enterprise.

 

[denodaeus]

Posted by Stewey:

Posted by Ryan8bit:

Posted by Stewey:
Something that is unconventional Trek is what I wanted from the start. The way I see it is, as long as the premise fits into the star Trek universe by not contradicting with what has come before, then I think Trek can lead off into any direction the writers want to go with.

Take DS9 for example, set in the Star Trek universe yet did something totally different to what has been conventionally been done on trek thus far.

Well, to be fair, DS9 did contradict established things in the Star Trek universe as well.

To use an analagy, DS9 stole an apple, Enterprise stole a million quid.

My point is that mistakes usually can happen, its bound to with 4 series and 10 films. however if you plan to make a prequel to something, it makes sense to actually understand the source material to which it is being a prequel to. Thus, had that actually happened the mistakes would never happened on Enterprise.

But you just can't assume that. That's 200 years of story that had only been assumed upon or mentioned in canon sources maybe 1-3% of the total time in Star Trek hours. To say that "that screws up canon!" in itself, if it's not a totally gross mutation of such, then in my humble opinion, that's being just a tad bit shallow.

Enterprise might of failed for bad storytelling, and not being quite so intriguing. But I honestly can't believe that it failed because someone didn't understand the source material enough to read every page of that canon bible before they make an episode.

If trek viewers are scrutinizing every little detail that slips, and watching every episode with their canon bibles in hand, then when an establish date slips, I can see the problem.

But, and I've watched every episode to date of Enterprise, I didn't see any gross issues like this. Enterprise just had bad, lame stories to tell (up until lately, IMO).

 

[Photoman15]

Posted by jkladis:

Posted by Stewey:
*snip*

Thanks I agree a great deal with that analysis. The idea of decanonisation is something I can't jump on board with, though. I guess I can't wrap my brain around the idea. It proposes too much complexity behind the scenes to repair that which did not work out.

Good closing statement. I could use some sleep, too.

And who's to say what should remain canon and what shouldn't? Me? You? Them? Us?

 

[2mars]

I feel sad about the end even though I knew it was coming. Thanks to all of the actors/actress's for an awesome performance.

 

[Anna Yolei]

Posted by denodaeus:
I feel, as long as that attitude exists (not necessarily abou the quality of Enterprise, but the fear of something new that isn't "conventional" Trek), then there will be many in the community who will reject anything other than the TNG gang in the holodeck.

It the sentiments of fans in whole that I believe a 30-year break would do the franchise a huge justice. By then, many of the TOS fans will have joined the Great Bird In The Sky, and the ones about my age will appriciate what we had in ENT, and hopefully be a bit more open to new ideas so long as the show is entertaining. It would be better to promote Trek to a generation or two that didn't grow up with Trek on the airwaves, like myself and a few others that can't remember a time that new Trek wasn't on TV.

 

[Photoman15]

Posted by Stewey:
]

Enterprise was a semi-reboot and it was cancelled after 4 seasons, I believe a full reboot wouldn't even last half as long.

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH STEWEY HERE! There, I said it!

 

[Amaris]

Posted by Stewey:

Posted by firehawk12:
^
I don't see anyone doing anything fresh with Star Trek though. How can you? Short of setting it in the 40th century or something.

If you can hire people who can think out of the box you can. Just using a different premise can take it into new directions, just like DS9 for example.

Agreed. You know, I just finished watching my "Star Trek: 25th Anniversary" VHS tape. And after waxing nostalgic and feeling uber Trekkish, I come back with a little more renewed faith. Even William Shatner himself said that "Star Trek was always in danger of being cancelled".

Keep hope.

-J.

 

[Enterprise Computer]

Posted by Stewey:

Take DS9 for example, set in the Star Trek universe yet did something totally different to what has been conventionally been done on trek thus far.

And likewise half the fanbase still rejects it, and the other half accepts it despite the horrable canon conflicts it created with TOS that people have no problem letting slide because its DS9, more canon conflicts than Enterprise had might I add. And only Trek fans really love it, many viewers consider (gasp) B5 to be much better because they see both storylines to be the same.

 

[optimus1]

I am sad that we wont see the further adventures of this crew as I love the main characters and have been a star trek fan since I was a child in the early 70's but I must admit if i had to choose which show to get cancelled out of BSG or Enterprise I would have to kill off Enterprise and when i can put another SCI FI show above my beloved Star Trek then that proves to me that this incarnation of trek needs to go and a whole new perspective on the franchise needs to be looked at in order to attract the big audiences and the ratings that are needed to fund such an expensive concept. I really love BSG now , I love that every episode has about 4 or 5 ongoing story lines between all the different characters , the characters just seem more real to me then the Enterprise characters do at present time , we need better writing , a new look , a new vision..I believe Coto was doing a nice job though but he came to late and was also constrained by what has already happened so far in the series..I will miss T'POL and Trip and the doctor the most. They did not do a good job of using all the crew , or with fleshing out the characters in interesting ways. I know more about the BSG crew after one season then I do about all of the Enterprise characters after 4. Sorry to keep mentioning BSG but like I said I am a huge Star Trek fan and for me to say its not as good as BSG kinda makes me mad at the people who for the last 7 years or more have watered down star trek so badly..DS9 was great , Voyager and Enterprise had good moments and a lot of very bad ones..

 

[Anna Yolei]

Can we all get back on topic about ENT's cancellation and stop bashing/gushing over DS9 please?

 

[Enterprise Computer]

I feel a reboot will do much better than people here are giving it. But I dont expect a reboot for at least 10 or more years, maybe even 15 when Star Trek is 50 years old.

I could outline today a perfect Star Trek series dealing with the TOS crew with a few added crewmembers from both WNMHGB and TMP and telling storys you probably havent even heard about that where wonderful, but the lot of the fanbase would never watch it if it where to air tomorrow, because its a reboot.

Give it 10 or more years and there will be 2 generations who havent even heard of Star Trek at least in the way we have. Only then will a reboot be succesfull.

 

[Sib76]

I am soooooo pissed right now... and terribly sad!!

Enterprise is cancelled!! I cannot believe it!!! Sure it wasn't the best show on TV... heck, there isn't much on TV these days anyway. Enterprise was the ONLY show that I watched every week and UPN had to take that away!! God, I'm so angry!

If Star Trek is to return to TV and it better!!! I firmly believe that B&B need to step down from their job. I'm sorry but they've been in that position for WAY TOO LONG. We need fresh blood!!

 

[optimus1]

http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=19321


There is still a hell of a lot of people still debating Star Trek though , and that means if they did something good with the franchise , something new and exciting then people would watch in pretty large numbers..I mean look at all the posts in that talk back on Aint it cool news..if there was no interest in this topic there wouldnt be even 20 replys in that thread. Trek can be made popular again , but we need something new and exciting and bold and different.