Can we ever realistically get to the 23rd or 24th Century?

[Chrisisall]

Yeah, I meant "let's wait and see as a collective species".

YOU might not be there, but I will.
Nothing truly dies that was ever something, my friend. Law of conservation of energy. Chrisisall & Deranged Nasat will be no more, but our essences will be... recycled.

God is green, dontcha know.

 

[USS Triumphant]

The Borg are more religiously dictated then anything else in the Star Trek universe, with their "we need to attain perfection; we are not good enough" creed.

That is very insightful, at least in relation to mainstream Christianity (of which I was a practitioner and pastor)....<snip>

Interesting discussion. But for my actual meaning, you didn't take me literally enough. I mean, we'll actually be the Borg. Or something very like them. Any time now.

 

[Chrisisall]

Interesting discussion. But for my actual meaning, you didn't take me literally enough. I mean, we'll actually be the Borg. Or something very like them.

Sorry, with our collapsing global society, it's more likely that we'll be more like the society in Mad Max than a high-tech AI scenario IMO.

 

[Peter the Younger]

We will make it to the 24th century, but not until the 32nd century.

 

[JustKate]

^ I agree that would be a prerequisite, Peter.

 

[alicelouise]

Yes, it is a vanity and a conceit to think that any one generation has all of the cards. What humanity will be in the 23rd or 24th century will be closer to "Firefly" than "Star Trek" IMHO. With the Fall of the Roman Empire much worse is possible as the past has shown us.

Space exploration would be more for colonization and resources than just for the sake of exploration. In the late 15th and 16th centuries only Spain and Portugal were interested in exploration. The reason was to find fabled El Dorados or Cities of Gold(resources). The rest of Europe got in on exploration later to colonize the new world.

Please note, after 1969 enthusiasm for the space Program waned after the Apollo 11 moon landing.

I'm not cynical, but, humanity is much the same now as in the 15th or 16th centuries. The same will be true in the 23rd and 24th centuries.

 

[Chrisisall]

What humanity will be in the 23rd or 24th century will be closer to "Firefly" than "Star Trek" IMHO.

Gorram straight.
But I *HOPE* not.

 

[plynch]

Oh, dear God, the smugness of our future selves. The certainty that they know what is best, that anyone who differs significantly from them is not merely different but actually wrong, that anybody who has different values merely needs to be enlightened...

Watched the next TNG ep last night where Wes is going to get executed on the planet of hedonistic half-naked ABBA clones because he smashed a greenhouse. After Picard gives a smug lecture ("we were once as you, but then we lahned to be better, blah blah") the "natives" call him on it! They respond like, "Oh sorry we're so PRIMITIVE compared to your adVANced ethics."

Picard's ethics still are shown to be "better" because he talks down the God machine into making an exception becuase that's a better way. (There must be a course at the academy in talking down society-controlling entities.)

Nevertheless I thought it interesting that the writer/producers would so early in the show point up that to the "natives" the Trekkers would seem arrogant. Kind of like how on West Wing, they would often give a decent rebuttal argument from the conservative side on the issue of the week, though Sorkin's viewpoint would eventually prevail. I guess when you create a show as he and GR did, you get to spout your viewpoint. That's only fair, I guess.

(But man, did they violate the Prime Directive in that one! They demonstrate their tech to a pre-warp culture, then take a member up to the big E to show her that her God is a big ship-machine!? Like wow. But the PD was a Gene Coon thing; maybe GR running TNG at the time wasn't such a devotee? Though they invoked the PD as a reason not to rescue young Mr. Crusher. Weird.

 

[RandyS]

Of course we can. Will we? Possibly. Possibly not. Let's wait and see!

Exactly. Given human history, I tend to think we'll be a dead race before the end of this century. But then, people have been predicting the end of the world since time began. When I was growing up, the Cold War was on, and everbody expected to be nuked. We weren't.

Leonard McCoy was right. It WAS a miracle we got out of the 20th century.

On the other hand, anything is possible. So the answer is both yes and no. No, WE won't make it to the 24th century, but our descendants just might.

 

[Anwar]

(But man, did they violate the Prime Directive in that one! They demonstrate their tech to a pre-warp culture, then take a member up to the big E to show her that her God is a big ship-machine!? Like wow. But the PD was a Gene Coon thing; maybe GR running TNG at the time wasn't such a devotee? Though they invoked the PD as a reason not to rescue young Mr. Crusher. Weird.

Actually, nothing said that the Edo were pre-warp people or that they had no idea of aliens. As for Wesley they DID try to rescue him but "God" wouldn't let them.

 

[plynch]

Of course we can. Will we? Possibly. Possibly not. Let's wait and see!

Exactly. Given human history, I tend to think we'll be a dead race before the end of this century. But then, people have been predicting the end of the world since time began. When I was growing up, the Cold War was on, and everbody expected to be nuked. We weren't.

Leonard McCoy was right. It WAS a miracle we got out of the 20th century.

On the other hand, anything is possible. So the answer is both yes and no. No, WE won't make it to the 24th century, but our descendants just might.

Much as I see the downsides to globalization, it might be bringing about some semblance of a chance for long-term peace if we define peace as the absence of war.

And maybe it was tribalism that kept us alive throughout the era of nuclear mutually assured destruction. If "we" started it, we knew our kind would also get wiped out. Screw the bad guy and/or neighboring areas, but WE"RE gonna be toast too? No thanks.

Terrorists who belong to international organizations now, of course are still tribal. But not being geographically concentrated (easy to hit) as opposed to a nation-state takes away that element of assurance and deterrence: that one or one's people will be surely retaliated against.

(A note: I had written earlier how in some ways tribalism is decreasing or at least broadening -- for many people their tribe is pretty large, to include all races or even animals. But yesterday exploring websites of other public school instructors, I happened on one from another state which shall remain nameless, and instantly made a nasty sarcastic comment about education in that state. In my head of course, so it's ok. Sigh -- I'm not to the Picard stage of enlightenment yet!)

This is a good thread. Thanks for makin' me think things I hadn't before.

 

[barnaclelapse]

I do agree that Star Trek portrays alien civilizations in a much too monolithic way; they are more caricatures then actual civilizations.

Star Wars is 50gazillion times worse with that and their caricature stereotypes.

Yeah.

At least Star Trek has made an effort (depending on the series/film) to actually give the other races some sense of culture. It's often just basic stuff to differentiate it from earth, but that's still better than Star Wars.

 

[JarodRussell]

We will probably end up in a Demolition Man type of future. Everything that is not good for you is illegal, and hypocritical political correctness of the most extreme sort will rule the world.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

....and hypocritical political correctness of the most extreme sort will rule the world.

Is that not the present?

 

[john titor]

Extreme PCness, another way of undermining freedom of speech.

 

[Captrek]

Assuming we don’t wipe ourselves out or get wiped out through war, environmental catastrophe, etc., our progeny in the 23rd century will be transhuman or posthuman. They won’t be like the characters we see in ST and other SF, who look and act like people of our time.

And despite all the future’s incredible technological advances that we can’t even imagine today, breaking the lightspeed barrier probably won’t be one of them.

 

[Chrisisall]

Extreme PCness, another way of undermining freedom of speech.

Authoritarianism comes in many shades of stupid.

 

[plynch]

Extreme PCness, another way of undermining freedom of speech.

How?

 

[Chrisisall]

Extreme PCness, another way of undermining freedom of speech.

How?

It, like many other isims, started off with noble intentions, and I was fully on board with it. But it degenerated from an obvious truth to another power grab, albeit an intellectual one.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Extreme PCness, another way of undermining freedom of speech.

How?

Well, in my experience those who are extremely "PC" are among the most intolerant people around, insisting everyone agree with their viewpoints and support their political and social policies or else you're utter immoral scum who has no right to self-expression. This is particularly infuriating when you essentially agree with their core belief system yet don't yourself take it to intolerant extremes.