The White Guardian has Janeway search the Delta Quadrant for the Key to Time.
Can u think of a stunt which would've doubled the ratings?
- Thread starter Guy Gardener
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ThisThisThisThisThisThisThisThis.
Especially Neelix. His exit was six seasons overdue. Couldn't stand the fucker.
antiquityscion
Commander
OK here is a serious answer from my POV.
Firstly, I would say that UPN Execs are probably more to blame for this than any single writer or producer.
What would have helped Voyager would have been a more serial format. I think one area DS9 and even Enterprise had more success is they had more of a serial feel than voyager. Too many episodes were one shot plots in voyager, and there were threads that were just dropped and never addressed (IE Kes, Caretaker, Kazon, Vidiians and even species 8472) . Yes they had the occasional 2 parter, and yes they did have some reoccurring themes. But there were too many one shot, throw away episodes that had the "alien of the week" or the "moral dilemma of the week" and tried too hard to emulate TNG.
I mean I think while a lot of people didn't like the Kazon, and saw them as the Delta Quadrant Klingons, I actually liked them. I liked that they were a reoccurring villain trying to capture Voyager tech. Yes, because Voyager was traveling through territories, there should have been a point where the Kazon no longer appeared, and there should have been other races they encounter, form alliances with, escape from, in a more serial way.
One other good example I think were the Vidiians. Had more races received a treatment like they did (a serious threat, and being villains with an understandable motive), it would have been better.
Voyager did do that to some extent with 8472, Hirogen, and Borg, etc, but those episodes were very self contained. I would have preferred a format where you would actually have to watch week to week to see what the over all story would reveal, like BSG. The stories could have been made more interesting if they could have omitted the one shot episodes and spent maybe half a season on a race, not one episode. Stories should have taken entire seasons to resolve, not single episodes or 2 parters.
Firstly, I would say that UPN Execs are probably more to blame for this than any single writer or producer.
What would have helped Voyager would have been a more serial format. I think one area DS9 and even Enterprise had more success is they had more of a serial feel than voyager. Too many episodes were one shot plots in voyager, and there were threads that were just dropped and never addressed (IE Kes, Caretaker, Kazon, Vidiians and even species 8472) . Yes they had the occasional 2 parter, and yes they did have some reoccurring themes. But there were too many one shot, throw away episodes that had the "alien of the week" or the "moral dilemma of the week" and tried too hard to emulate TNG.
I mean I think while a lot of people didn't like the Kazon, and saw them as the Delta Quadrant Klingons, I actually liked them. I liked that they were a reoccurring villain trying to capture Voyager tech. Yes, because Voyager was traveling through territories, there should have been a point where the Kazon no longer appeared, and there should have been other races they encounter, form alliances with, escape from, in a more serial way.
One other good example I think were the Vidiians. Had more races received a treatment like they did (a serious threat, and being villains with an understandable motive), it would have been better.
Voyager did do that to some extent with 8472, Hirogen, and Borg, etc, but those episodes were very self contained. I would have preferred a format where you would actually have to watch week to week to see what the over all story would reveal, like BSG. The stories could have been made more interesting if they could have omitted the one shot episodes and spent maybe half a season on a race, not one episode. Stories should have taken entire seasons to resolve, not single episodes or 2 parters.
I really like that idea! I think that could have been extremely interesting.
And, BTW, TNG also had no mirror universe episodes.
- 7 of 9 getting an abortion
- 7 of 9 has a wardrobe malfunction
- The borg go back in the past, capture Kirk and Spock and turn them into drones
- Captain Janeway begins using racial slurs when addressing her crew
- Harry Kim has a sex change operation
- Icheb gets AIDS
- 7 of 9 has a wardrobe malfunction
- The borg go back in the past, capture Kirk and Spock and turn them into drones
- Captain Janeway begins using racial slurs when addressing her crew
- Harry Kim has a sex change operation
- Icheb gets AIDS
But Icheb did have AIDS. "Borg-AIDS" never the less, but his parents gave it to him to infect and destroy the Borg.
(Janeway had Borg aids in the finale. Was she sleeping with Icheb in the future after he had turned into that strapping lad from Shattered?)
I forget, was Kim a boy or a girl?
(He wouldn't want to be accidentally given a second set of genitals, rather have what he's got swapped out?)
Honestly.
You would think that EVERYONE would want Borg-AIDS... The entire female crew (most of the blokes too, unless the boys paired off with a friend to get second hand Borg-Aids?) would have lined up outside his regeneration chamber to be "inoculated" from assimilation.
Of course, the Doctor could have bottled what the kid had in his fluids and passed it around in a hypospray for everyone's convenience, leaving his granitey virginity unchiselled.
(Janeway had Borg aids in the finale. Was she sleeping with Icheb in the future after he had turned into that strapping lad from Shattered?)
I forget, was Kim a boy or a girl?
(He wouldn't want to be accidentally given a second set of genitals, rather have what he's got swapped out?)
Honestly.
You would think that EVERYONE would want Borg-AIDS... The entire female crew (most of the blokes too, unless the boys paired off with a friend to get second hand Borg-Aids?) would have lined up outside his regeneration chamber to be "inoculated" from assimilation.
Of course, the Doctor could have bottled what the kid had in his fluids and passed it around in a hypospray for everyone's convenience, leaving his granitey virginity unchiselled.
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So you think a male character would have been more popular.
Priceless
I could see Janeway with that strapping lad from Shattered.
COUGAR!!!!!!
The episode after Chakotay, Kim and Neelix are killed horribly, Kes returns to Voyager, her same youthful self--having used her increcible mental powers to alter the Ocampa genetics to allow them to live longer, and restore their homeplanet to a habitable world. She then resumes her role as Delta Quadrant native, though now with bad-ass telepathic abilities (that beat Borg-tech hands down, Seven later becomes so depressed that she isn't the centre of attention that she rejoins the Collective).
The following episode, they encounter a Romulan ship in the DQ (pulled there by Banjo Man) which has to be destroyed to save the day, but a handful of the crew are beamed aboard Voyager and integrated into the crew (they however keep their uniforms and rank structure)--including the vacant First Officer's post.
The following episode, they encounter a Romulan ship in the DQ (pulled there by Banjo Man) which has to be destroyed to save the day, but a handful of the crew are beamed aboard Voyager and integrated into the crew (they however keep their uniforms and rank structure)--including the vacant First Officer's post.
Caretaker was so far away that that the changes to his timetable wouldn't have changed by e complete overhaul of the AQ. It's just a question of who in the "Alliance" (?) that Caretaker would have drawn to the DQ to breed with. I'd suggest Gul Seska and her pet Kathryn Janeway, who has to get along with aptain Chakotay aboard a human Resistance fighter Shuttle... But really, there are an infinite number of mirror universe exist where the Terran Federation never fell.
I just want to see Janeway on a leash painting Seska's toenails like a good human slave in the beginning, and then Kathryn doing a Princess Leia at that end choking the life out of her Cardassian overmaster poetically with the same leash.
I just want to see Janeway on a leash painting Seska's toenails like a good human slave in the beginning, and then Kathryn doing a Princess Leia at that end choking the life out of her Cardassian overmaster poetically with the same leash.
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I think everyone has exhausted the "make Seven of Nine do sexy things" joke.
Seven of Nine really only improved the ratings for less than half of a season, her appearance may have generated column inches but the idea that Voyager would have been cancelled if it wasn't for her is absurd if you look at the ratings.
Nothing could have doubled Voyager's ratings because as you can see from the graph - neither trek show was getting those kinds of ratings.
One possibility would have been to just wait a couple of years before starting Voyager and putting a bit more effort into executing the concept properly.
Seven of Nine really only improved the ratings for less than half of a season, her appearance may have generated column inches but the idea that Voyager would have been cancelled if it wasn't for her is absurd if you look at the ratings.
Nothing could have doubled Voyager's ratings because as you can see from the graph - neither trek show was getting those kinds of ratings.
One possibility would have been to just wait a couple of years before starting Voyager and putting a bit more effort into executing the concept properly.
There is a difference.
The rating held in syndication, which TNG & DS9 were shown operate differently than nation wide networks do. If Voyager were on a syndicated network like DS9, it's lower ratings would be accepted because it falls with in the parameters allowed in syndication. Network ratings are keep to a higher standard and a show with Voyager's ratings on a network station fall dangerously close to the cancellation cut off mark.(DS9 might not have lasted if on network TV, they did bring in Worf as an attempt to boost ratings too) Star Trek simply doesn't have a large enough steady fan base to keep it on network rated TV. Paramount incorrectly assumes TNG veiwership is how large the Trek fandom is, when actually it's probably actually no bigger than the numbers Voyager pulled.
A difference in what?
What are you even talking about?
What are you even talking about?
You're incorrect Voyager wasn't near the verge of cancellation.
There's a difference in how ratings are tabulated for network TV vs. syndication. You can't compare how well a syndicated show does vs. one on regular network TV. TNG & DS9 were both shown in syndication. Voyager is the first Trek show since TOS to be shown on network TV. Syndication allows a show with lower ratings to survive, while network TV doesn't. Looking at the graph doesn't tell you that fact. Voyager on network TV was in possible danger of being cancelled, DS9 in syndication wasn't.
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wasn't there an issue in networks though? UPN was a new network with lower standards for ratings than ABC, NBC, or CBS.
I thought Voyager's ratings were decent for a UPN/WB type of network, but obviously wouldn't have cut it for a more major network.
Not far as I'm aware.
UPN announced it was a major network, so it's competition from the start is the other major networks. Entertainment Weekly used to post monthly ratings chart of every show on network TV and where they fell within it. UPN was calculated right next to CBS, NBC, FOX & ABC. UPN tried the same gimmicks FOX did when they started by going after an audience no other network was going after. UPN was trying to match or beat FOX's numbers. IF they could, they'd be in good running at staying a strong contender. A Trek spin off was their best bet at the time to do this due to Trek's iconic history. However, they later found out it takes more than just one show to secure a major network.