• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Can Kirk Destroy Romulas?

Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Plutodawn

Lieutenant
Newbie
Can Captain Kirk, with the right weaponry, pull right up to Romulas, and blow the planet up?

If he blows it up, no future Romulan ship can go through the timehole. (Wormhole, but time, timehole.)

Timeline ends. I know Vulcuns said multiple timelines exist, but umm....they are pretty much dead at this point so don't have a vote, and besides, they are usually wrong, especially in regards to the proper use of Red Matter in exploding stars. I'm not sure I want to turn to them first for a deep understanding of astrophysics.

So um.... really, the scientifically prudent thing to give killing every Romulan alive a solid shot. Seems the sensible thing to do. If it doesn't work, you know the anwser to the does time branch or reset question.
 
Plutodawn said:
If he blows it up, no future Romulan ship can go through the timehole. (Wormhole, but time, timehole.)

Timeline ends.
Click to expand...

That's not how it works. Nero from the Prime 24th century timeline isn't from nuKirk's timeline. So it would make no difference if he blows up Romulus in his universe.
 
Even Nero himself, an ingorant miner, realized that eliminating Vulcans in the 23rd century would not alter the fact that a Vulcan in the 24th century had killed his wife, and that the wife would remain dead.

Now, we still don't know why Nero thought Spock killed his wife, but the miner probably had his reasons for thinking that Spock's failure to prevent the death of the entire planet Romulus was criminal negligience of some sort. That's external to the story of the movie. But the mirrored situation is quite evident there, both to the players and to the audience: blowing up all Romulans would change nothing.

Timo Saloniemi
 
No, creating a grandfather paradox may very well end the Kelvin Timeline.

Its like SciFi when your trapped in a dreamworld, only way out is suicide. That's the one lynchpin keeping it all moving forward. Remove it, system collapse (or in my case, you keep dreaming over a dead corpse in a field).

You don't know what kind of effect such a paradox has on intra-temporal physics, in a system where time rewrites itself, just one history- that grandfather paradox grinds it to a halt, but if there are many currents intertwined, able to interact, then forcing what would be a predestination paradox might force the timeline to interact with the mother timeline in a perceptible way. Perhaps destroying Romulas or blowing up it's sun has a net effect on the mother timeline's sun? Might force a early evacuation on the real/main Romulas early on in it's timeline.

If these timelines are interconnected enough for travel between them, then they are connected in many other subtle ways. Targeting temporal paradoxes seems a sound thing to do.

Kirk should shoot Spock in the head, and destroy Romulas. That would definarely mess up the timeline progression beyond repair. In the Doctor Who universe, that would he enough to collapse the universe.

And if he is wrong, no biggie. Spock dies all the time. Who cares about the Romulans if destroying them does nothing apparently, not like they've ever done anything useful. Heck, you already know how that society turns out in the end- dead or psychiotic. Best to just try to get it over with now.
 
Dukhat said:
That's not how it works. Nero from the Prime 24th century timeline isn't from nuKirk's timeline. So it would make no difference if he blows up Romulus in his universe.
Click to expand...
Okay, how about nuKirk uses the nuEnterprise-A to blows up the 22nd century prime Romulas from the 23rd century Abrams universe?
 
That would work too, but only my way offers a ethical solution. Nobody here has managed to explain how shifting Spock in the head and destroying Romulas is unethical at all, because in time travel, it is only the ends that justifies the means, nothing else (unless it's question of love in Season 3 of 12 Monkies).

So, going back into the past to destroy Romulas from Kirk's time may stop Spock from ever trying to save Romulas, but you still end up with a destroyed Romulas.

If the time streams are interdependent but still interconnected (they absolutely must be somehow) then even if paralleled, introducing a predestination paradox, while not capable in and of itself of changing this new timeline, might shake things up between the two timelines that a early evacuation of Romulas might be necessary in the original timeline several generations before that star explodes.

What if it has some absurd effect, like the balance between the strong and weak nuclear forces starts unraveling on Romulas, they can't figure out why, do evacuate to another planetary system in The Romulan Star Empire?

Chances are, some forces of physics are unified across time streams, but others differ per location. You effect the time stream in one timeline per a given location too much, a relativistic result occurs in other timelines in that same spot to compensate.

You destroy one Romulas, other will be effected.

This isn't just a case of a parallel universe, but time travel within a parallel universe. If Kirk can mess with the physics enough in his new timeline, the old one in its past will get shakier and shakier, and a butterfly effect can unfold.

Killing Spock in the new timeline might cause a lifetime of physical discomfort to Spock in the original cause his atoms expanded or became smaller ever so slightly. Romulas might not be able to have as predictable of a chemistry or geological forces as before.

This would presume unlike a TV show like Sliders, alternate timelines are not intimate, and are intact mutually reconciable. I believe it was Voyager that explored this, by merging the timestreams of individuals who experienced multiple timelines for being held as a single entity in court.

If Kirk shoots Spock in the head and destroys Romulas early enough in the timeline, potentially no Spock has to die, and the Romulan Empire doesn't have to collapse- merely relocate its capital world.

It is the logical thing to do. Spock must be shot in the head for the love of Spock. The Romulas must be destroyed to save them. It's the right thing to do, anything else would be unethical.
 
Plutodawn said:
That would work too, but only my way offers a ethical solution. Nobody here has managed to explain how shifting Spock in the head and destroying Romulas is unethical at all, because in time travel, it is only the ends that justifies the means, nothing else (unless it's question of love in Season 3 of 12 Monkies).

So, going back into the past to destroy Romulas from Kirk's time may stop Spock from ever trying to save Romulas, but you still end up with a destroyed Romulas.

If the time streams are interdependent but still interconnected (they absolutely must be somehow) then even if paralleled, introducing a predestination paradox, while not capable in and of itself of changing this new timeline, might shake things up between the two timelines that a early evacuation of Romulas might be necessary in the original timeline several generations before that star explodes.

What if it has some absurd effect, like the balance between the strong and weak nuclear forces starts unraveling on Romulas, they can't figure out why, do evacuate to another planetary system in The Romulan Star Empire?

Chances are, some forces of physics are unified across time streams, but others differ per location. You effect the time stream in one timeline per a given location too much, a relativistic result occurs in other timelines in that same spot to compensate.

You destroy one Romulas, other will be effected.

This isn't just a case of a parallel universe, but time travel within a parallel universe. If Kirk can mess with the physics enough in his new timeline, the old one in its past will get shakier and shakier, and a butterfly effect can unfold.

Killing Spock in the new timeline might cause a lifetime of physical discomfort to Spock in the original cause his atoms expanded or became smaller ever so slightly. Romulas might not be able to have as predictable of a chemistry or geological forces as before.

This would presume unlike a TV show like Sliders, alternate timelines are not intimate, and are intact mutually reconciable. I believe it was Voyager that explored this, by merging the timestreams of individuals who experienced multiple timelines for being held as a single entity in court.

If Kirk shoots Spock in the head and destroys Romulas early enough in the timeline, potentially no Spock has to die, and the Romulan Empire doesn't have to collapse- merely relocate its capital world.

It is the logical thing to do. Spock must be shot in the head for the love of Spock. The Romulas must be destroyed to save them. It's the right thing to do, anything else would be unethical.
Click to expand...
Not sure what ethics class was taken, but that doesn't track from mine.

Secondly, how does destroying Romulus to prevent the destruction of Romulus make sense, logic or otherwise?

Finally, what?
 
Whatever happens to Romulus in the Kelvin timeline will have absolutely NO effect on anything in the Prime timeline.

Romulus Prime will still be destroyed by the Hobus supernova, and there is nothing that nuKirk (or anyone else in Kelvinverse) can do about it. There is no connection whatsoever between the two timelines - apart from Nero and Spock Prime's initial journey from Prime to Kelvin of course. But apart from that, there's nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Bupkes.

As for what will eventually happen to the Kelvinverse version of Romulus? That's anybody's guess. We really don't know anything about the circumstances behind the Hobus supernova. We don't know what caused it, or anything like that. So for all we know, there won't ever be a Kelvinverse version of these events.
 
(Tongue n cheek )

What is Kirk tool Ent A back to 1 day before Narada showed up. Took out Romulus n presto...... Kelvin timeline never exits
 
Actually it would. See Back to The Future 2. Stop the event that skewed the time line n org time line restored.

Just need Kirk to get the spots almanac from young nero after old nero thinks he set it all up n left
 
Plutodawn said:
Can Captain Kirk, with the right weaponry, pull right up to Romulas, and blow the planet up?

If he blows it up, no future Romulan ship can go through the timehole. (Wormhole, but time, timehole.)

Timeline ends. I know Vulcuns said multiple timelines exist, but umm....they are pretty much dead at this point so don't have a vote, and besides, they are usually wrong, especially in regards to the proper use of Red Matter in exploding stars. I'm not sure I want to turn to them first for a deep understanding of astrophysics.

So um.... really, the scientifically prudent thing to give killing every Romulan alive a solid shot. Seems the sensible thing to do. If it doesn't work, you know the anwser to the does time branch or reset question.
Click to expand...

It would be way awesomer if they went back and allowed the two Lazaruses (Lazuri?) out of the transdimensional corridor and allow them to get together. Blow everything up in both universes! Karblewie!!!! Kaboooom!

Annihilation, Jim. Total, complete, absolute annihilation.

Kill! Kill! Kill! Kill! Kill! Kill!

That seems like a much more reasonable approach to your issue. Then you could save everyone from everything bad ever. Do it for their own good. It's the right thing to do
 
Last edited:
...This has to be the most craziest thing I've heard. How in the world does destroying a homeworld fix anything?

And really? Murderous actions is the only way? This is Admiral Marcus/TUC Conspirators levels of insane logic here.
 
Plutodawn said:
Nobody here has managed to explain how shifting Spock in the head and destroying Romulas is unethical at all
Click to expand...

If you need it explaining they haven't much chance really.

But anyway, according to the dynamic as described in the film the entire NuVerse exists from the point at which the Narada comes through the, er, "timehole". Thus eveything that happens hence is in a seperate timeline. Blowing up Romulus in that new timeline would have no bearing on the Prime one, all it would prevent is a further possible "branching" event down the line.

In fact we have no way knowing whether Romulus IS in fact destined to be destroyed in the new timeline at all and thus whether any native version of Nero would have cause to go marauding seeking vengeance.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Tallguy
Star Trek: Generations at 30
8 9 10
Replies
187
Views
12K
Richard S. Ta
Richard S. Ta
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top