Burning question to some of our favorite movies

[Turd Ferguson]

Sometimes it's just in nature (at least mine) to overthink the movies I've watched dozens upon dozens of times. Take, for example, Back to the Future. An all-time classic and in my top three movies. But,not immune to my overthinking.

At the end of Part III, we see Marty and Jennifer happy. Doc and Clara zip off to the past in the locomotive time machine with Jules and Verne to have adventures. Everybody's happy. Or are they?

Surely after the Libyan attack at Twin (Lone) Pine(s) Mall, some sort of investigation had to occur as to why there were spent casings all over the parking lot and the Libyans decided to stage an attack on the One Hour Photo booth. Assuming the Libyans survived, wouldn't the FBI eventually detain them and they spill the beans about the wacky scientist they attempted to kill along with a teenager who stole their plutonium? And if they didn't survive, wouldn't the Feds wonder why a VW bus decided to kamikaze into a photo booth armed with an RPG?

After Doc and Clara leave 1985 in the train, the FBI would still be investigating the plutonium theft. Wouldn't they at least question Marty?

Wouldn't it alter the timeline to leave the trashed DeLorean with its 2015 Mr. Fusion reactor for Joe Civilian to stumble upon and reverse engineer? What if Mr. Fusion started leaking radiation on the side of the tracks? Wouldn't Marty be questioned as to why he was in a vehicle registered to Doc Brown that he took joyriding on the train tracks and ended up totaling playing chicken with a locomotive? Maybe get charged with littering or fleeing the scene of an accident?

I don't mean for this to be a serious thread. I welcome thoughts on some overthinking of Back to the Future or any other sci fi/fanstasy movies

 

[marillion]

I tend to be like that too. I guess you can call them plot holes, but in the grand scheme of things, they are mostly "things that make you go hmmmmm" or continuity errors.

In 2022, the Lybians in the parking lot thing would be easy to figure out, thanks to there being SO many security cameras in use these days. Today, Doc would have had to do his experiment way out in the middle of nowhere, but even then, there's no guarantee that there wouldn't be someone nearby with a phone.

Of course now I'm drawing a blank on any of my examples of this, but yeah, I get it. LOL.

 

[Prometheus59650]

Honestly, die to how the DeLorean functions, Marty died never having reached 1955 and all three films are his death dream.

But I enjoy considering these plot issues just because it's kind of fun to poke holes in a good-natured way, and some of them I just never noticed at all until someone else points them out. I mean, until Amy pointed it out in The Big Bang Theory, it honestly never occurred to me that nothing Indy did ultimately mattered to the ending.

 

[Saul]

OK, not SF or fantasy but it always annoyed the hell out of me that they introduced a Bond car and all the cool things it could do in 'Goldeneye' and then they never do anything with it. Time and time again I find myself asking why. Surely Bond himself is like "Why the F*** did they give me this car only to take it away from me later?".

 

[UssGlenn]

until Amy pointed it out in The Big Bang Theory, it honestly never occurred to me that nothing Indy did ultimately mattered to the ending.

He saved Marion's life, or at the very least prevented her from being permanently blinded. Also, Belloq probably would have opened the Ark on the island first regardless (just with alternate transporation), but without Indy on the island to recover the Ark, the Nazi's come back to investigate why they lost contact, and then find and recover the Ark.

 

[Finn]

Sometimes it's just in nature (at least mine) to overthink the movies I've watched dozens upon dozens of times. Take, for example, Back to the Future. An all-time classic and in my top three movies. But,not immune to my overthinking.

At the end of Part III, we see Marty and Jennifer happy. Doc and Clara zip off to the past in the locomotive time machine with Jules and Verne to have adventures. Everybody's happy. Or are they?

Surely after the Libyan attack at Twin (Lone) Pine(s) Mall, some sort of investigation had to occur as to why there were spent casings all over the parking lot and the Libyans decided to stage an attack on the One Hour Photo booth. Assuming the Libyans survived, wouldn't the FBI eventually detain them and they spill the beans about the wacky scientist they attempted to kill along with a teenager who stole their plutonium? And if they didn't survive, wouldn't the Feds wonder why a VW bus decided to kamikaze into a photo booth armed with an RPG?

After Doc and Clara leave 1985 in the train, the FBI would still be investigating the plutonium theft. Wouldn't they at least question Marty?

Wouldn't it alter the timeline to leave the trashed DeLorean with its 2015 Mr. Fusion reactor for Joe Civilian to stumble upon and reverse engineer? What if Mr. Fusion started leaking radiation on the side of the tracks? Wouldn't Marty be questioned as to why he was in a vehicle registered to Doc Brown that he took joyriding on the train tracks and ended up totaling playing chicken with a locomotive? Maybe get charged with littering or fleeing the scene of an accident?

I don't mean for this to be a serious thread. I welcome thoughts on some overthinking of Back to the Future or any other sci fi/fanstasy movies

You are assuming the Libyans stayed around long enough for the authorities to question. I don't recall where the lab the plutonium was stolen from was. It may be quite a distance from Hill Valley. If the Libyans took off along with the VW bus, the FBI may not get involved or it may not have occurred to the local police...

The second movie suggests the FBI never showed up. They would have with Marty in the hospital in the timeline where Marty hit the Rolls Royce. It would have been mentioned in that conservation instead of blaming the accident on him not becoming a successful musician. Oh, and Doc would have warned Marty.

 

[Gaith]

I mean, until Amy pointed it out in The Big Bang Theory, it honestly never occurred to me that nothing Indy did ultimately mattered to the ending.

"An army which carries the Ark before it... is invincible." Just because the first group of Nazis that found it was dumb enough to open it up and have a look inside doesn't mean the next group wouldn't learn their lesson.

(Moral of the story: nothing good ever comes from watching the show that shall not be named. )

 

[DonIago]

With regards to BTTF, I always found the more troubling concern to be that Marty no longer knows his own life story and at some point is probably going to say or do something that troubles his family or friends.

 

[Mojochi]

Surely after the Libyan attack at Twin (Lone) Pine(s) Mall, some sort of investigation had to occur as to why there were spent casings all over the parking lot and the Libyans decided to stage an attack on the One Hour Photo booth. Assuming the Libyans survived, wouldn't the FBI eventually detain them and they spill the beans about the wacky scientist they attempted to kill along with a teenager who stole their plutonium? And if they didn't survive, wouldn't the Feds wonder why a VW bus decided to kamikaze into a photo booth armed with an RPG?

I just assumed that in the time before Marty wakes up in bed the next morning, he & (the now survived) Doc stage the whole mall scene to look like basic vandalism or hit & run on the photo booth. Since Marty intercepts Doc right after being shot, & the 2 Libyans are no longer posing a threat at that time, they are either somehow gone from the scene, (Assuming they succeeded in killing Doc) they're dead in the crash, or incapacitated long enough for Marty & Doc to deal with them too.

There's also the possibility that because they own a time machine, Marty & Doc immediately went back in time to prevent the whole Libyan attack altogether, & returned back to that moment.

After Doc and Clara leave 1985 in the train, the FBI would still be investigating the plutonium theft. Wouldn't they at least question Marty?

Not if they never have a clue Doc was involved, or were never brought into the Twin Pines events, because it just looked like vandalism or some kind of gang violence... OR the Twin Pines events... ceased to exist, thereafter

Wouldn't it alter the timeline to leave the trashed DeLorean with its 2015 Mr. Fusion reactor for Joe Civilian to stumble upon and reverse engineer? What if Mr. Fusion started leaking radiation on the side of the tracks? Wouldn't Marty be questioned as to why he was in a vehicle registered to Doc Brown that he took joyriding on the train tracks and ended up totaling playing chicken with a locomotive? Maybe get charged with littering or fleeing the scene of an accident?

There's a strong chance that since Doc shows up at that same moment, with ALL kinds of new news, he's clued in to all these events & has managed them somehow.

With regards to BTTF, I always found the more troubling concern to be that Marty no longer knows his own life story and at some point is probably going to say or do something that troubles his family or friends.

Now that IS a valid concern, & one Marty would spend a long time having to covertly educate himself about, quite possibly with the help of his time traveling scientist friend, or his family might start thinking he has some kind of mental or neurological disorder lol

However, another thing to consider is that it would be remarkable for someone as integral to their relationship as Marty had been to NOT be recognized, even those many years later, as their son, & at some point they just agree that since, for most of his life, other Marty doesn't seem to have a clue about that, they should just keep a lid on it, and play along with Marty whenever he begins acting oddly. The McFly's are probably going be suspect at some point regardless. The kid hangs out with a wacky scientist, who blasts onto their lawn in nutty clothes.

Besides, NONE of this is nearly as disturbing as how closed off the McFly gene pool must be for one of Marty's paternal relatives (Maggie) to be a virtual twin of his mother Lorraine Baines, a relative who lived in Hill Valley probably up to the point Lorraine was actually born

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Wouldn't it alter the timeline to leave the trashed DeLorean with its 2015 Mr. Fusion reactor for Joe Civilian to stumble upon and reverse engineer? What if Mr. Fusion started leaking radiation on the side of the tracks?

I doubt that there was enough of the DeLorean left to bother with. Anybody who happened upon the wreckage would think it was just that - wreckage. Junk. They wouldn't know what to do with it.

As for Maggie and Lorraine: You can't really explain that. It's just an excuse to have Lea Thompson play as many roles as she wanted. Although if you had to come up with something, I guess McFly men just tend to be attracted to women who look like her.

 

[SithHappens]

I just assumed that in the time before Marty wakes up in bed the next morning, he & (the now survived) Doc stage the whole mall scene to look like basic vandalism or hit & run on the photo booth. Since Marty intercepts Doc right after being shot, & the 2 Libyans are no longer posing a threat at that time, they are either somehow gone from the scene, (Assuming they succeeded in killing Doc) they're dead in the crash, or incapacitated long enough for Marty & Doc to deal with them too.

There's also the possibility that because they own a time machine, Marty & Doc immediately went back in time to prevent the whole Libyan attack altogether, & returned back to that moment.
Not if they never have a clue Doc was involved, or were never brought into the Twin Pines events, because it just looked like vandalism or some kind of gang violence... OR the Twin Pines events... ceased to exist, thereafter
There's a strong chance that since Doc shows up at that same moment, with ALL kinds of new news, he's clued in to all these events & has managed them somehow.

Now that IS a valid concern, & one Marty would spend a long time having to covertly educate himself about, quite possibly with the help of his time traveling scientist friend, or his family might start thinking he has some kind of mental or neurological disorder lol

However, another thing to consider is that it would be remarkable for someone as integral to their relationship as Marty had been to NOT be recognized, even those many years later, as their son, & at some point they just agree that since, for most of his life, other Marty doesn't seem to have a clue about that, they should just keep a lid on it, and play along with Marty whenever he begins acting oddly. The McFly's are probably going be suspect at some point regardless. The kid hangs out with a wacky scientist, who blasts onto their lawn in nutty clothes.

Besides, NONE of this is nearly as disturbing as how closed off the McFly gene pool must be for one of Marty's paternal relatives (Maggie) to be a virtual twin of his mother Lorraine Baines, a relative who lived in Hill Valley probably up to the point Lorraine was actually born

More strange that despite every male ancestor or descendant (even female ones) looking exactly like Marty, his Dad and Brother look totally different. Makes me wonder if there isnt a secret BTTF 4 out there were a 1960's Lorraine travels to 1930's hill valley and bumps into another McFly and is taken in by how much he looks like that Calvin fella who showed up briefly and cheats on George.

Maybe that will be the Disney messed up sequel after they buy universal.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

One more question, then I'll try to move on to another movie series

We are all aware the original Doc Brown that invented the time machine that died at Twin Pines Mall made the vehicle from scratch over thirty years. BUT. Did 1955 Doc? Or did 1955 Doc study then reverse engineer what 1985 Doc had made? Or try to recreate the DeLorean from memory? Did 1955 Doc buy the exact same DeLorean at the exact same car lot in 1985 that original Doc did? If the car had remained in use and not been dismantled, how big of a pain in the ass would it be for a mechanic to do an oil change or do any kind of regular maintenance with all the shit all over the back of it?

I admit that was way more than one question

 

[Mojochi]

We are all aware the original Doc Brown that invented the time machine that died at Twin Pines Mall made the vehicle from scratch over thirty years.

This sentence confuses me. The actual construction of the time traveling vehicle, which was Delorean made, couldn't have been undertaken any earlier than 1981 (When the DMC-12 model came out). So he's only been working on that one time traveling vehicle less than 4 years, & since the report of the stolen plutonium to fuel it is in the current news, it's likely even less time than that

Did 1955 Doc? Or did 1955 Doc study then reverse engineer what 1985 Doc had made? Or try to recreate the DeLorean from memory? Did 1955 Doc buy the exact same DeLorean at the exact same car lot in 1985 that original Doc did?

1955 Doc did spend a great deal of time working on that vehicle. So, his ability to reverse engineer aspects is surely possible, especially the flux capacitor that he himself had already envisioned.

But the thing to remember is how committed 1955 Doc was to not allowing himself to corrupt Marty's prime timeline. He might have been willing to eventually cave in & read Marty's letter, but I really doubt he'd have willfully undertaken actions that he knew would be different, in his research, which might lead to different outcomes.

That knowledge he now has, at a much earlier time, could potentially allow him to build a time machine much earlier, perhaps, but I doubt he'd do that, knowing what he knows. Plus, it's also likely that many of the components in his designs wouldn't be available for many years anyhow. Nevertheless, knowing that his maiden voyage is 8/26/85 would be a really powerful thing he probably wouldn't want to tamper with.

 

[Anwar]

You are assuming the Libyans stayed around long enough for the authorities to question. I don't recall where the lab the plutonium was stolen from was. It may be quite a distance from Hill Valley. If the Libyans took off along with the VW bus, the FBI may not get involved or it may not have occurred to the local police...

The second movie suggests the FBI never showed up. They would have with Marty in the hospital in the timeline where Marty hit the Rolls Royce. It would have been mentioned in that conservation instead of blaming the accident on him not becoming a successful musician. Oh, and Doc would have warned Marty.

The Libryans weren't wearing seatbelts and crashed into a booth while going 88 MPH.

They're dead.

 

[Mojochi]

Maybe I can get the ball rolling on the next movie (I'll go with Indiana Jones, since a new one is coming)

We never truly get a concrete understanding of exactly what the Holy Grail does, in Last Crusade. The claim is he who drinks from it is granted everlasting life. Does that mean just one drink? Does this mean Indy & Henry are now immortal? I mean we find out in the subsequent film that Henry has indeed died, but that might not have been of natural causes. The cup doesn't expressly defend the drinker from all potential death evermore. It's never said it makes you impervious to being killed, just that you can live forever, having drank from it... or engaging in drinking from it. However, it DID heal Henry. So it apparently can defend you from harm as well, perhaps only if you possess it for use when you DO have times when you're harmed

The Knight who guarded it was in fact hundreds of years old, and it had kept him in a living state that was still elderly. So did he have to keep drinking from it? Is that why he still aged? Drinking from it once doesn't make you immortal, but continually drinking from it does? Or drinking from it once DOES make you immortal, but you still age to some degree?

 

[Finn]

The Libryans weren't wearing seatbelts and crashed into a booth while going 88 MPH.

They're dead.

I'll have to rewatch it but it didn't look like a violent collision like one would expect when going 88ish, when the VW bus hit that fotomart IIRC.

 

[Nightowl1701]

Maybe I can get the ball rolling on the next movie (I'll go with Indiana Jones, since a new one is coming)

We never truly get a concrete understanding of exactly what the Holy Grail does, in Last Crusade. The claim is he who drinks from it is granted everlasting life. Does that mean just one drink? Does this mean Indy & Henry are now immortal? I mean we find out in the subsequent film that Henry has indeed died, but that might not have been of natural causes. The cup doesn't expressly defend the drinker from all potential death evermore. It's never said it makes you impervious to being killed, just that you can live forever, having drank from it... or engaging in drinking from it. However, it DID heal Henry. So it apparently can defend you from harm as well, perhaps only if you possess it for use when you DO have times when you're harmed

The Knight who guarded it was in fact hundreds of years old, and it had kept him in a living state that was still elderly. So did he have to keep drinking from it? Is that why he still aged? Drinking from it once doesn't make you immortal, but continually drinking from it does? Or drinking from it once DOES make you immortal, but you still age to some degree?

You have to drink from it every day to stay young and immortal. The knight's faith faltered on occasion, and he aged a year for every day he abstained.

Toto's still in danger by the end of OZ, as Miss Gulch is very much alive.

Not after trying to outrun a tornado on a bicycle, she isn't.

With regards to BTTF, I always found the more troubling concern to be that Marty no longer knows his own life story and at some point is probably going to say or do something that troubles his family or friends.

It took days for the original timeline changes to catch up to Marty and for him to start disappearing from existence. Other than the awkward re-intro to his family, Marty is kept busy for several days (his POV) after his return to 1985. Odds are by the time Doc caught back up to Marty at the train track, the memories of his 'new' life would have gradually faded in and either overlapped the original memories (Marty remembering both) or overwritten them.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

This sentence confuses me. The actual construction of the time traveling vehicle, which was Delorean made, couldn't have been undertaken any earlier than 1981 (When the DMC-12 model came out). So he's only been working on that one time traveling vehicle less than 4 years, & since the report of the stolen plutonium to fuel it is in the current news, it's likely even less time than that

Sorry, I didn't mean that Doc built the DeLorean for over 30 years, but it's possible over 30 years he could have assembled components and wiring while waiting for an appropriate vehicle to be produced

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Regarding Last Crusade, I always got the impression that in order to derive eternal life from the Grail, one had to constantly keep drinking from it. Once you stop, then you age.

So Professor Jones won't live forever, since he only took a few sips from the cup. The Grail knight, OTOH, lived as long as he did because he kept drinking from it, all the time. Constant consumption of water from the Grail is required for everlasting life.

 

[Mojochi]

Regarding Last Crusade, I always got the impression that in order to derive eternal life from the Grail, one had to constantly keep drinking from it. Once you stop, then you age.

So Professor Jones won't live forever, since he only took a few sips from the cup. The Grail knight, OTOH, lived as long as he did because he kept drinking from it, all the time. Constant consumption of water from the Grail is required for everlasting life.

I'm inclined to agree with this interpretation as well, as it seems to somewhat work with the dialog

But the grail cannot pass beyond the great seal. That is the boundary and the price of immortality

So the primary way to interpret that is how the Knight has, by staying there in the chalice room with the cup. Because it is only useable in there, the implication of calling that caveat the "price of immortality" is that in order to use it specifically for everlasting life, it must be continually used, in some degree.

However, it did presumably permanently heal Henry's wound, saving his life from that individual fate, meaning that in order to receive lifesaving treatment from the Grail, one need not necessarily stay there, just come there and drink away your wounds/illnesses. Ideally, after Indy had discovered & overcome the challenges of the Grail quest, it is now possible for that location to become a healing miracle Mecca (Were it not for dumb Elsa)

There's also the real-life lore, that another possible use is to regain youth. I'd like to think that in order to achieve that, you might have to drink from it a LOT & often, & the Knight, out of respect, chose not to do that, thus why he aged. He only drank from it as much as he needed, to accomplish his charge.

I really only brought this one up, because after The Crystal Skull, you had a lot of sillies using this bit of canon, to explain away the much more cartoonishly extreme ability Indy had to survive things like an atomic bomb blast in a fridge. "It's because he's immortal now"