Two different organizations. In "Turnabout Intruder", it seemed no one had the authority to remove Kirk. In "Obsession", it seemed like it would take only Spock and McCoy.
Burnham's Mutiny... Not Canon?
- Thread starter Kane_Steel
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Two different organizations. In "Turnabout Intruder", it seemed no one had the authority to remove Kirk. In "Obsession", it seemed like it would take only Spock and McCoy.
I really have to watch all of TOS again.
I remember nothing except for Joan Collins' haunting eyes in that weird blinkered mood lighting.
I remember nothing except for Joan Collins' haunting eyes in that weird blinkered mood lighting.
This is throwaway line level continuity error, these really do not bother me. Each individual Trek series has at least dozen of these even within their own intraseries continuity. It is bigger stuff that bother me, like blatantly showing cloaking devices when it is a major plot point ten years later that they've never encountered one.
Discovery is all about "above top secret" security. Its adventures will be completely erased from Starfleet and Federation databases. Including empowered women.
The fact that they make a point of calling her the first mutineer suggests to me this "mistake" is deliberate. The first time I watched it I immediately predicted there was going to be a coverup. I don't buy the Section 31 theory though. And I don't agree with the notion raised in this thread that a coverup wouldn't work because "everyone" already knows about it, especially when the guy who doesn't know is Chekov who's literally a kid when this is happening.
Regarding Michael... I think she is Starfleet's first mutineer, in that she attacked and tried to replace the captain and her authority, but there wasn't really a mutiny, as it was just her for what, five minutes, and she tried to trick the rest of the crew.
There was no conspiracy among crewmembers to take over the command of the ship, no one else challenged the captain's authority, and the rest of the officers tried to stop her. It was just one officer groslly breaking the chain of command.
There was no conspiracy among crewmembers to take over the command of the ship, no one else challenged the captain's authority, and the rest of the officers tried to stop her. It was just one officer groslly breaking the chain of command.
It doesn't need to be fixed, Spock's line is the continuity error here as other mutinies were mentioned/done in TOS.
I feel like Burnham's going to expose Lorca as one of those insane captains TOS kept throwing at us. After Discovery ends, we'll speak of Lorca the same way we do Tracy, Merrick, and Lord Garth.
Food for thought:
What if the overabundance of insane captains and admirals during TOS is a result of PTSD from the Fed/Klingon war?
That trial seemed fake, because Starfleet is happy.
The prisoners were fake, because they did not have the security clearance to walk around freely on the Discovery.
Tilly is fake, because everyone knew who Michael Burnham was before she beat 3 assholes one tenth to death in the mess.
Yup.
Fake reality.
Space Gods pushing rats through a maze, to teach them a lesson about how war is shit.
The Gorn fricking Skeleton is all the clue you need.
Doubtful. Merrick flunked out of Starfleet. Decker was PTSD from losing his crew. Garth was the shape-shifting he was taught. Tracy would undoubtedly be PTSD from losing his crew and having to live with natives at war for six months.
There were no crazy Admirals that I recall. That was TNG.
It's just a lemma to the broader truth "Whenever something is claimed to be Very First Time in Star Trek, the statement is in error".
I mean, it has to be. These guys are part of a continuum of galactic civilizations stretching to billions of years in the past. Moreover, most of our sets of heroes are hardened veterans of space exploitation. They must have seen it all before.
Yet statements like the one discussed here abound. "Where Silence Has Lease" has another infallible character declare with extreme authority that nothing even remotely like "The Immunity Syndrome" ever happened. Every time a lifeform or a natural phenomenon moves at warp, it's unheard of. And so forth.
Luckily, this one is pretty easily sidestepped. Why would Starfleet want to remember past mutineers? And failed ones at that, when in "Tholian Web" our heroes are confronted with a violently successful one?
I don't think any of the mutinies in TOS stand up to scrutiny as examples of successes that were entered into records and never erased. In most cases, we hear onscreen how specific empowered characters want to drop charges or forget about what happened. In others, this can be inferred. And Starfleet loves to rewrite its history, especially mission logs... Why, every single one of them is written long after the fact.
Timo Saloniemi
I mean, it has to be. These guys are part of a continuum of galactic civilizations stretching to billions of years in the past. Moreover, most of our sets of heroes are hardened veterans of space exploitation. They must have seen it all before.
Yet statements like the one discussed here abound. "Where Silence Has Lease" has another infallible character declare with extreme authority that nothing even remotely like "The Immunity Syndrome" ever happened. Every time a lifeform or a natural phenomenon moves at warp, it's unheard of. And so forth.
Luckily, this one is pretty easily sidestepped. Why would Starfleet want to remember past mutineers? And failed ones at that, when in "Tholian Web" our heroes are confronted with a violently successful one?
I don't think any of the mutinies in TOS stand up to scrutiny as examples of successes that were entered into records and never erased. In most cases, we hear onscreen how specific empowered characters want to drop charges or forget about what happened. In others, this can be inferred. And Starfleet loves to rewrite its history, especially mission logs... Why, every single one of them is written long after the fact.
Timo Saloniemi
If this is a Section-31 show, then we wouldn't know about it in the canon-verse. These events could have been classified or even deleted from all records.
How fallen has our Trekkie race become that VOYAGER is being used to discuss canon?
How is this thread still going? It was totally busted by page 2
Mendez watched the same "show" as fake Mendez.
Had he desired, Spock would be mining dilithium.
That type of thing was always Needs of the Plot driven.
Look at the situation in TOS - "The Doomsday Machine". Commodore Deker has just LOST his ship and entire crew; and is about to do the same thing with the 1701 - yet, McCoy suddenly can't relieve Deker because with all that's going on, he hasn't had a chance to give him a psychological examination...
I mean the man lost his ship and his ENTIRE crew <--- That alone woulkd be "Um, yeah, no more commanding a starship for you until Starfleet command has held an inquiry,,,ESPECIALLY when you want to take a SECOND SHIP and all the Senors are saying no weapon known can penetrate the machine's neutronium hull...
She tried to mutiny, but failed to do so.
She stood on the bridge for about 2 minutes, trying to get the crew to follow her orders (which they didn't, really), and then it was all done. Yeah -- she was court martialed for mutiny, but that's because she tried it at all.
If Spock would have said that no person in the history of Starfleet ever tried to mutiny, I would find that assertion highly suspect.
She stood on the bridge for about 2 minutes, trying to get the crew to follow her orders (which they didn't, really), and then it was all done. Yeah -- she was court martialed for mutiny, but that's because she tried it at all.
If Spock would have said that no person in the history of Starfleet ever tried to mutiny, I would find that assertion highly suspect.
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