Burnham, Sarek and Picard

[Ar-Pharazon]

Sarek likely had the mental discipline to bury some things further down than others. It could also be that Bendii Syndrome caused Sarek to forget certain things by that point and therefore they weren't even capable of being passed along to Picard.

The basic stuff like Spock, Amanda and Perrin and the regrets connected to them would always be there. Top secret information from 100 years earlier maybe not.

 

[Blue Squadron]

This raises some really interesting questions and possibilities...

...but I also think that these are likely to remain obscure and unaddressed questions -- unless the witers / producers get a good idea and then feel that they want to develop a story-line which specifically utilises this possibility.

It certainly has potential for a Picard / Disco crossover story although, given the now wildly differing time-frames, I suspect it would need to be an indirect crossover with story elements that bleed from one series into the other rather than a full-on mix-up.

Like everything in Trek, if they can develop a good story then it has real potential, if handled well.

 

[Therin of Andor]

So Picard knew all along that there was this ultra powerful propulsion engine and kept silent about it even during that "warp drives are polluting the galaxy" episode?

"All we need is a giant tardigrade and some mushrooms for every Starfleet vessel!"

Considering how sloppily the Starfleet "coverup" was handled, it's unbelievable that everyone and their targ doesn't know about the spore drive by the time of TOS.

How was it sloppy? The news didn't get out.

 

[Deks]

"All we need is a giant tardigrade and some mushrooms for every Starfleet vessel!"

Discovery did seed a lifeless planet with those spores... so, they have that taken cared of.
As for finding a Tardigrade... that's not necessary.
Its possible the UFP could make an exception in providing well trained pilots with this genetic modification for the sole purpose of using the Spore Drive... after all, they DID allow Bashir to continue to serve in Starfleet.

But, they wouldn't necessarily need to.
If you recall, the problem of successful use of the Spore Drive was also mentioned to be rooted in lack of sufficiently advanced computer technology (aka, AI which would be able to do that).
Starfleet had artificial brains by 24th century... so its EXTREMELY UNLIKELY that they wouldn't be able to make the drive work.
For that matter, 32nd century Starfleet would similarly be able to use the Spore Drive via technology alone and no need for biological entities of any kind because the tecnology would have evolved to such a degree where technically speaking Spore Drive wouldn't really be needed because Transwarp beaming would have been used for both people and ships (which would in itself render distances useless... unless TW beaming does have a distance limit - but 32nd century power source would provide ridiculously massive ranges most likely... across half a universe probably).

How was it sloppy? The news didn't get out.

I guess it was sloppily handled when it was covered up initially.
Plus, the Klingons were at large closing up on Discovery and its secret in Season 1. Its unlikely to think they would have abandoned that research (especially if Klingon Intelligence thought that USS Discovery could show up anywhere)... although they also decided not to mess with the Time crystals and time travel in general, so I guess abandoning further research into what Discovery had (beyond the Klingons who learned about the Spore drive and were destroyed with the Ship of the dead).

Still, Burnham's ex and the female Klingon Chancellor might have thought the matter closed after realizing what was at stake (annihilation of all sentient life in the galaxy) so they could have decided to eradicate data pertaining to Disco themselves.

 

[Lord Garth]

I always took Picard's potential indirect knowledge of Burnham as a case of "Don't ask, don't tell." In real life and in-universe.

My boring, non-exciting answer.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Discovery did seed a lifeless planet with those spores... so, they have that taken cared of.
As for finding a Tardigrade... that's not necessary.
Its possible the UFP could make an exception in providing well trained pilots with this genetic modification for the sole purpose of using the Spore Drive...

And all of this information was known by Sarek?

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Picard didn't tell anyone about burnham or the spore drive because he likes keeping secrets. They make him feel dirty and powerful.

 

[Deks]

And all of this information was known by Sarek?

Well, we do know he was aware of the Spore Drive and Disco DID seed that planet while the Admiral was on-board... I think Sarek was on-board during that process as well.
As for giving pilots genetic modifications... well, as I said, its an exception rather than the rule. And besides, AI would have definitely advanced by the 24th century to remove the need for biological organisms to safely take the ship through the mycelial network.
If you remember, Stamets did mention they lacked the computational power in the 23rd century to get it done... but I doubt this would remain the case in the 24th... and certainly not in the 32nd.

 

[Weyoun 251]

Well, we do know he was aware of the Spore Drive and Disco DID seed that planet while the Admiral was on-board... I think Sarek was on-board during that process as well.
As for giving pilots genetic modifications... well, as I said, its an exception rather than the rule. And besides, AI would have definitely advanced by the 24th century to remove the need for biological organisms to safely take the ship through the mycelial network.
If you remember, Stamets did mention they lacked the computational power in the 23rd century to get it done... but I doubt this would remain the case in the 24th... and certainly not in the 32nd.

I would suggest "definitely" is a bit strong a phrasing.

What is this was a misinterpretation of the data by Stamets and it wasn't computational power as such but kind of an Andromeda Slipstream thing where AI cannot pilot it due to more abstract and random elements?

 

[Yistaan]

As for giving pilots genetic modifications... well, as I said, its an exception rather than the rule. And besides, AI would have definitely advanced by the 24th century to remove the need for biological organisms to safely take the ship through the mycelial network.
If you remember, Stamets did mention they lacked the computational power in the 23rd century to get it done... but I doubt this would remain the case in the 24th... and certainly not in the 32nd.

There was no AI advanced enough in the 32nd century to talk to the spores, that was like a major plot point of this lasts season. Other than tardigrades and Stamets only the Kwejian can do it.

 

[fireproof78]

would suggest "definitely" is a bit strong a phrasing.

Deks has a very definitive view of how tech will develop. However, Star Trek doesn't usually fit in that view. Thus Star Trek writers are always "wrong " in their use of technology.

 

[Weyoun 251]

Deks has a very definitive view of how tech will develop. However, Star Trek doesn't usually fit in that view. Thus Star Trek writers are always "wrong " in their use of technology.

Is this the "why didn't the Fed have Dyson Spheres by 11 minutes past 7 on 13th March 2472" specific or "based on what they had in TOS, the extrapolation indicates the following"?

 

[fireproof78]

Is this the "why didn't the Fed have Dyson Spheres by 11 minutes past 7 on 13th March 2472" specific or "based on what they had in TOS, the extrapolation indicates the following"?

More the later but it can push towards the specific.

 

[Yistaan]

Could the AI hating Zhat Vash actually have won in the end? Would explain why we don't see a lot of advanced AI's in the 32nd century, and what holograms they do have regressed to the point they can be deactivated by blinking.

 

[fireproof78]

Could the AI hating Zhat Vash actually have won in the end? Would explain why we don't see a lot of advanced AI's in the 32nd century, and what holograms they do have regressed to the point they can be deactivated by blinking.

I think they just directed research as they could, as well as the set backs from the synth ban, and the use of holograms for labor.

 

[Deks]

Deks has a very definitive view of how tech will develop. However, Star Trek doesn't usually fit in that view. Thus Star Trek writers are always "wrong " in their use of technology.

Its not really my view... its how technology and science evolve... exponentially. And this fact doesn't just 'stop' or 'vanish'.

The writers have completely ignored that (which irks me to no end because Trek was 'supposed' to have presented a positive outlook of the future where things can change for the better and doesn't 'vilify' technology or science... instead, it just ended up presenting us with a semi stagnated interpretation of the future with minor advancements and became a bit repetitive to boot - plus, how many bans have we seen on technology in Trek to date - but heck, even with bans, the progression they showed was a proverbial snails pace whereas it STILL should have been exponential - so one thing doesn't work, you then continue to R&D when you find another option - there is ALWAYS another option).

If they actually went into the direction of say Type II civilization status for UFP since 22nd century and progressing to Type III slowly, but then speeding up in the coming centuries (especially past 24th due to better advancements in FTL) and then starting to progress to Type IV in say 29th and 32nd century, perhaps it would have forced the writers to come up with better stories than what we got.

Its not like we don't have info of how such civilizations might look like (we do)... Trek could have explored that without focusing on post-apocalyptic nonsense for the sake of generating 'drama'.

 

[fireproof78]

Its not really my view... its how technology and science evolve... exponentially. And this fact doesn't just 'stop' or 'vanish'.

Did I say it did? No. But Star Trek hasn't done it this way. So, expecting them to just jump in to that is pretty much yelling at the wind.

Science and technology evolve a certain way and Trek evolves a different way. That isn't going to just stop or vanish either. Sorry, but that's the reality and saying "Well, in reality science does _________" is great but doesn't change a thing.

 

[Deks]

Is this the "why didn't the Fed have Dyson Spheres by 11 minutes past 7 on 13th March 2472" specific or "based on what they had in TOS, the extrapolation indicates the following"?

Actually, in regards to TOS, they had the inactive Planet killer machine made entirely out of Neutronium for study since then, so my thought was when 24th century came around 'why hadn't they designed sensors, weapons and defenses which would have a viable impact against it (and even made their own Neutronium) by then when you factor in exponential advancements and the fact UFP had 150 member species (and that much more scientists and networked supercomputers) to work with? Even without the Planet Killer, the UFP would have likely been able to invent, synthesize and use Neutronium by the 24th century anyway with exponential developments and returns in the mix - this could have also been used as a premise as to why the Q were so interested in UFP at large (mass acceleration of evolution when coupled with exponential developments and returns further compounded by a large alliance of dozens to hundreds of alien species working together/cooperating, sharing resources, technology, science, all without money).

My other beef was primarily with how the writers constantly ignored advancements that were made in-universe and NOT having wider-reaching impacts... and then pushing things 100 years forward, but showing as if barely ANY time passed to begin with - it made it VERY difficult for me to swallow and enjoy when you factor in just how much the world changed from the year 1900 to 2000 (and even more so, in the last 10 years).

Discovery Season 3 had a golden opportunity to showcase massive advancement and just how much things have changed..
Instead... we got more of the same with improvements that were akin to maybe 20 years worth of advancements.

 

[Deks]

Could the AI hating Zhat Vash actually have won in the end? Would explain why we don't see a lot of advanced AI's in the 32nd century, and what holograms they do have regressed to the point they can be deactivated by blinking.

Doesn't track, as the Zhat Vash specifically operated in the interest of Romulan civilization/culture, and the need for them may have ended when Picard season 1 ended.
Plus, the Romulans eventually rejoined with the Vulcans, so its possible that such things would have also vanished from Romulan culture over time (leading up to the 32nd century).

Vance also specifically said to Burnham their AI are significantly more advanced than what SF had in the 23rd century (which would technically be an understatement if anything).
Also, the blinking shutting down holos was seen exactly on 1 occasion, and it could have been done intentionally so they could debrief Georgiou properly (in essence, it was an act).

 

[Deks]

There was no AI advanced enough in the 32nd century to talk to the spores, that was like a major plot point of this lasts season. Other than tardigrades and Stamets only the Kwejian can do it.

This doesn't make sense to me. The premise that there was no AI advanced enough in the 32nd century never even CAME UP in Disco S3 (aka it was ignored completely).

We already have numerous ways to overcome problems using AI and adaptive algorithms in real life using supercomputers... and if you could use a few words to the computer in the 24th century to extrapolate on something... with sufficient data and learning capabilities, it would have been able to do so... even more so in the 32nd century... and they had how many ships at HQ stationed inside that bubble?
Starfleet also spent 3 weeks retrofitting Discovery... those 3 weeks could have been used by AI and all SF ships stationed at HQ to be networked and used a supercomputers to make Spore Drive work on every SF ship.

The Emerald Chain was able to extrapolate where Discovery will emerge from the Mycelial network after maybe noticing the ship using it via long range sensors once. They can do that but Starfleet having an actual working technology in its laps for 3 weeks cannot make it work?
That's some stupid writing right there.