Bungie cryptically announces its next HALO project!

[CommodoreKong]

Age of Empires 3 has sold more then 2 million copies, that's great numbers. As far as I know that number doesn't include the expansion packs.

Ensemble were expecting rather more than that, AOE3 sales were disappointing. For my part, as a fan of AOE/AOK/AOM, I couldn't have cared less about AOE3. Muskets? Railroads? Colonisation of the Americas? Fuck off, I'll stick with my Trebuchets.

I don't know if they would consider that disapointing. I'm sure it made money for Ensemble.

Age of Empires 3 has sold more then 2 million copies, that's great numbers.

Sure, those are great numbers ... but Age of Empires 3 came out, what, three years ago? PC game sales haven't exactly been stellar since then.

That's true. But their final game is a Halo console spinoff is pretty much guaranteed to sell well and make a lot of money. It's too bad they aren't getting a chance at making AoE4, I was interested in seeing how the series would do with modern warfare.

Console games can barely handle 32 player servers. We're going to see that new stupidly named "Massive Action Game" on the PS3 try to do 100 players but we'll see if that actually pans out.

The big problem is communication. Even with 24 players, DICE couldn't figure out how to do team wide communication in Battlefield Bad Company because of lag. And even if they could work it out, imagine 99 other Halo 3 players in a single room. It would be a chorus of 13 year olds calling you a nigger or a fag. Fun times.

I have a feeling that MAG isn't going to be that game's final name (I've even heard rumors it's a Socom spinoff).

To be fair PS3 games use dedicated servers far more often then Xbox games do, so I'm willing to bet they will be able to pull off 100 players with dedicated servers.

Communication can be an issue, though I imagine if handled correctly it will work. Only allow people near you be able to hear you (and if it's a squad based game also allow people to talk to their squad, and squad leaders be able to talk to each other). Of course games should always include private friends channels to allow friends to talk to each other without anyone else interrupting.

 

[firehawk12]

I don't see how it's really any different from any other MMO... you don't need 99 people in a room, nor would it be productive.

Well, the point of an MMOFPS would be to recreate large scale PVP battles. If you're just doing "raids", might as well play CoD4 singleplayer... and if you're just doing small scale battles like they're planning with Resistance 2, you might as well just play any other FPS with a squad system, like BF:BC.

I have a feeling that MAG isn't going to be that game's final name (I've even heard rumors it's a Socom spinoff).

To be fair PS3 games use dedicated servers far more often then Xbox games do, so I'm willing to bet they will be able to pull off 100 players with dedicated servers.

Communication can be an issue, though I imagine if handled correctly it will work. Only allow people near you be able to hear you (and if it's a squad based game also allow people to talk to their squad, and squad leaders be able to talk to each other). Of course games should always include private friends channels to allow friends to talk to each other without anyone else interrupting.

Yeah, MAG is definitely a temp name. And yep, the good thing about PS3 games is the dedicated servers. Still, I'll have to see it to believe it. 100 on the PC is still a rare sight.
I suppose the argument there is that after a certain number, chaos ensues. I think 64 works with Battlefield because of the large maps, but unfortunately most console FPS players like playing in tiny boxes.

One problem with multi-channel chat is that the 360 control is already running out of buttons. You'd need a button to toggle between squad level and command level chat and even then, you'd need people to actually listen to each other in the first place.

 

[Sephiroth]

i'd like to see Halo:Battlefront

 

[Arrqh]

I don't see how it's really any different from any other MMO... you don't need 99 people in a room, nor would it be productive.

Well, the point of an MMOFPS would be to recreate large scale PVP battles. If you're just doing "raids", might as well play CoD4 singleplayer... and if you're just doing small scale battles like they're planning with Resistance 2, you might as well just play any other FPS with a squad system, like BF:BC.

Right, but you still don't need 99 people in one room. Do you think everyone in an RvR zone in WAR is in the same Vent channel? As I said it wouldn't be productive... each party or squad is going to talk amongst themselves. This doesn't make it have small scale battles, it just means everyone is in their own squad as part of a large scale battle. Which is how it should be. As someone already mentioned, see Planetside. Or any other MMO, regardless of genre, that has large scale PvP.

That said, why are we talking about a Halo MMO on a console? The concepts that were leaked out are pretty clearly showing an interface built for a PC.

 

[firehawk12]

Yeah, but honestly, with MGS I'm just assuming that the end result of anything they do will be for the 360 as well, if not exclusively. I imagine they dropped this when they decided to do the Marvel MMO... before they dropped that too.

And honestly, based on BF:BC, even squad coordination is hit and miss. You just have to hope that the random squad you're placed in has people who know what they're doing.
As for WoW or Warhammer... honestly have no idea how that works. I just hear about these epic 60 player multi-hour raids and I imagine that there must be some form of coordination between all players to make it all work.

Anyway, if Huxley ever comes out, I guess we'll see if it will work.

 

[Rii]

As for WoW or Warhammer... honestly have no idea how that works.

With a keyboard.

 

[dragunzng]

People will laugh, but Planetside was a ton of fun when the game mechanics weren't screwing things up, just have a gander at this.

I think a Halo MMOFPS could work, and if MAG can support 256 players, I've no doubt Microsofts currently in development HALO team could get an MMOFPS running on the box with dedicated servers. If they wanted to. Co-ordination won't be a problem, game designers have had a lot more widespread experience with multiplayer online shooters and I think Resistance 2 and MAG will will show this.

That said, the Halo MMO screens did look a little dodgy, glad they pulled the plug on that one.

 

[firehawk12]

I'm just skeptical. If you're going to stick to squad vs squad combat, then why not just do the Gears of War thing and just have 5 v 5 and just have a meta game that plays out in the background, like what Ubi is doing with EndWar?
PC designers have struggled with trying to make this stuff work. Quake Wars did this thing where completing given objectives gives extra XP as an incentive to get players to work for team objectives instead of kills, but I have no idea if that worked or not.
BF's gimmick was to give you extra XP for squad assists and squad saviours, which of course only happens if you stick with a squad mate. These things sort of artificially force game play even if there's not much communication, but it doesn't really solve the larger problem of general chaos.
There's always a jackass who goes sniper and camps because he wants kills. And there's nothing you can do to stop him short of TKing him.

As for WoW or Warhammer... honestly have no idea how that works.

With a keyboard.

Well, I know how it works... just not *how* it works. Unless it's like that South Park episode.

 

[Rii]

As for WoW or Warhammer... honestly have no idea how that works.

With a keyboard.

Well, I know how it works... just not *how* it works. Unless it's like that South Park episode.

I meant that text is better than voice when you're dealing with that many players, easier to keep track of things.

 

[dragunzng]

Firehawk, there's an AI "director" in R2 that will occasionally tell all the squads to converge on the same objective, so even though you're mostly having little skirmishes, you'll also get massive fights thrown in as well.

 

[firehawk12]

I meant that text is better than voice when you're dealing with that many players, easier to keep track of things.

I know, I was making a funny.
Frankly, I prefer having a keyboard if only because most servers have filters for "bad" words. Can't do that with VOIP unfortunately.

Firehawk, there's an AI "director" in R2 that will occasionally tell all the squads to converge on the same objective, so even though you're mostly having little skirmishes, you'll also get massive fights thrown in as well.

Yeah, I guess we'll see if it works in the beta or whatever. It also depends on map design, of course. But I just liked the way that BF2 worked - the cap points basically create a moving front that forces conflict and loose teamwork.

 

[Krieg1981]

They should make a new Marathon game! That was fun before all the Halo goodness.

 

[David cgc]

There have been some very vague implications they might do something with Marathon now that they're their own studio again, if only because they own Marathon and are thus accountable only to themselves if they use it.

 

[dragunzng]

Yeah, I guess we'll see if it works in the beta or whatever. It also depends on map design, of course. But I just liked the way that BF2 worked - the cap points basically create a moving front that forces conflict and loose teamwork.

Can't say I really liked any of the BF games, I am looking forward to Battlefield Heroes though!

 

[FordSVT]

With a keyboard.

Well, I know how it works... just not *how* it works. Unless it's like that South Park episode.

I meant that text is better than voice when you're dealing with that many players, easier to keep track of things.

On 25 man + raids Vent is a necessity, most raiding guilds won't accept you unless you've got vent. A big raid requires very careful planning and the assumption that most people know their job. There is usually a very experience raid boss who gives orders over vent, with only certain members of the raid allowed to speak on the main raid channel during the actual battles.

You can get by with just a keyboard running Kara and other 10 man raids, but running Gruuls and SSC or Hyjal and up would be impossible using just keyboards, voice is 100% essential for a successful instance.

 

[Rii]

Well, I know how it works... just not *how* it works. Unless it's like that South Park episode.

I meant that text is better than voice when you're dealing with that many players, easier to keep track of things.

On 25 man + raids Vent is a necessity, most raiding guilds won't accept you unless you've got vent. A big raid requires very careful planning and the assumption that most people know their job. There is usually a very experience raid boss who gives orders over vent, with only certain members of the raid allowed to speak on the main raid channel during the actual battles.

You can get by with just a keyboard running Kara and other 10 man raids, but running Gruuls and SSC or Hyjal and up would be impossible using just keyboards, voice is 100% essential for a successful instance.

A raid guild running Sunwell Plateau bears no resemblance whatsoever to a public Battlefield 2 or hypothetical MMOFPS match. Alterac Valley is a much better analogy, and voice chat is disabled there. Voice chat works in raids because the coordination and discipline a raid guild brings to that environment is sufficient to compensate for the inherent deficiencies of the medium. In large-scale public matches, where you can't guarantee the behaviour and coordination of all participants, text is superior as it's easier to sort through the clutter of near-simultaneous messages, messages persist on-screen for a period of time, and the increased time and effort required to type a message rather than say it tends to discourage "throwaway" comments below a certain level all by itself.

 

[FordSVT]

^Well, BG are definitely different.

For that matter, few people even seem to pay attention to written messages. I couldn't begin to imagine the number of times in AV we only lost because no one bothered to heed defence warnings because people were more interested in zerging to the front of the pack to rack up their damage or kill tally while flag after flag falls behind the line while a meager few of us try to clean up the mess. Fortunately it doesn't happen too much, I'm on Blackrock, and Alliance SUCKS on Blackrock.

Here's a clue guys, winning gets you more honor than simply killing and losing 99% of the time.

But my point would still stand in a premade pvp group, voice is simply easier and faster. But I suppose an unrestricted voice channel in a free for all like Battlefront with 20-100 players would get confusing and old really quick, the part about two dozen little brats calling everyone a "fucking ni**er" is true.

 

[firehawk12]

Well, the big problem is that on console there's no way to do text chat in game. I generally like a combination of both, but it's already hard enough to get communication going normally on a console.

It's even worse on the PS3 because no one has a microphone.

 

[FordSVT]

It's pretty easy if you've got an experienced group that is serious about playing, but that only happens about 10% of the time on Live. Too many selfish little bastards.

 

[Rii]

For that matter, few people even seem to pay attention to written messages. I couldn't begin to imagine the number of times in AV we only lost because no one bothered to heed defence warnings because people were more interested in zerging to the front of the pack to rack up their damage or kill tally while flag after flag falls behind the line while a meager few of us try to clean up the mess. Fortunately it doesn't happen too much, I'm on Blackrock, and Alliance SUCKS on Blackrock.

Here's a clue guys, winning gets you more honor than simply killing and losing 99% of the time.

I'm not a big fan of AV in general, too much zerg and too many farmers, but the last match I played there (several months ago now) was epic. Alliance started out at a numerical disadvantage, 40v25 or so, and Horde took everything up to Icewing Bunker, including Balinda and Snowfall GY, in the initial push, forcing Alliance back into a turtle. At that point Alliance had picked up some extra players for an even 40v40, and it was shaping up as a drawn-out war of attrition (which Horde would've inevitably won given that Alliance had already lost Stonehearth and Icewing) along the road between Icewing Bunker and Stormpike GY, until, for the first time in months, we summoned Lok.

It was a total massacre, the Alliance lines simply collapsed as Lok went around 2-shotting everyone. We formed up behind Lok, keeping him up with heals and killing any Alliance attempting to kite him or break through the lines, and advanced almost unimpeded to the Dun Baldar bridge where Alliance briefly put up a fight. Lok, at that point having fed off something like 100 players, was absolutely huge. Everyone was chanting "LOK! LOK! LOK!"

Long story short, we massacred them. It's so rare these days to see Lok (or Ivus) brought into play, most matches you don't even see the Wing Commanders, they're remnants of a time when each match used to last for hours. Good times.