Building A Personal Computer -- Advice

[Technobuilder]

Hi, I've been around this Board forever and I figured this forum would be the place to turn to in getting some advice on building a new computer.

I don't know of any reliable information sites or forums for building systems and I'm not that up on current available technology. (Motherboards & Processors mostly -- What's good? & What's Affordable? etc.)

Anyway, I'm just looking for some helpful guidance and a little info on what is currently top-of-the-line, midrange, and what is about to replace both of those. I'm in the market for a new computer but I'm probably going to putting it together sometime mid-December or even January.

If there's anything I forgot to mention, or you think might be good for me to know, please don't hesitate to mention it. I appreciate it. Thanks

 

[TerriO]

It's been about five years since I built mine, and I've pretty much been a slave to laptops ever since, but I can point you toward Tigerdirect.com for parts. That was where I bought the motherboard, CPU and an extra set of cooling fans. Bought the case at a local store. Drives, etc. were from either Tigerdirect.com or one of the local stores when they had a good sale. It's far easier to do than many people think.

I figure, hell, if I can do it, it can't be that difficult.

 

[Kurtman]

I suggest you try to get as much info on stores and price estimates now, but ask for what parts to consider when you are closer to getting them. There may be very profitable price to performance ratio changes until then.

Sorry that I can't provide you with a list. Frankly, I've slipped behind.

\\//_

 

[Arrqh]

NewEgg was always my favorite place to order from when shipping to the US.

ArsTechnica puts system guides together every few months; I didn't base my build directly off of them (I put this machine together in April) but their builds are pretty similar to mine. They've got two guides you might be interested in reading:

Ars "Hot Rod", June 2007 ~$1500

Ars Performance Gaming Box, July 2007 ~$3000

But keep in mind... these are a bit out of date now, as available parts change every few months, as does pricing. By December they'll be REALLY out of date, but they'll be new guides by then too! It's not a bad idea to read up on what's out now, but it isn't worth it to pick out parts until much closer to when you're buying.

 

[JonathonWally]

For parts I'd highly recommend this list of sites, it's where I get my stuff for pc stuff. I buy my server parts wholesale, but that's a different beast entirely

Zip Zoom Fly
Newegg
Pricewatch
Pricegrabber


Depending what you'd like to do with your new comp, I'd recommend these parts, they're usually affordable and they're great stuff

Motherboard - I'd go with an NForce 4 Ultra chipset, which are AMD boards. I like MSI, Asus and Abit.

I'd go with an AMD chip myself, cheaper than intels and more bang for your buck. You wanna go with the AM2 socket. Make sure the Mobo is the same AM2 socket as well.

For Ram you have a couple options, I myself like corsair in matched sets, but it's not a must, but you should at least go with a gig minimum.


Buy the best air cooling chip heatsink you can afford, make sure it's an AM2 socket as well. The average pricerange is $40-$50, I like thermaltakes but there are plenty of other brands to go with.

The rest of the parts, dvd/cdr drives are your preference, I like Lite-On and Pioneers, but there are plenty out there for you to look at.

Hard drives, go with whatever size you'd like, recommended brands are Western Digital and Seagate, make sure they're 7200 speed, or faster if you'd like, but not a real priority.

The case fans you can pretty much by anywhere if they don't come with base you buy. Make sure you buy the case first so you know how many and what size fans you'll need, the norm is 90mm some can fit 120mm.


If you're on a budget, you can always by a slower chip and upgrade that later on when you have more money to spend.

Make sure to pick up a tube of arctic silver #5 thermal paste to put between the chip and heatsink, it's the best kind out there and is well worth the $5-$10.


Everything is up to you though, I'm just giving you some suggestions at what I like using.

I'd also recommend not buying the parts until you're ready to build, that way you get the newest stuff at the best prices.

Hope that helps, and if you have any questions feel free to ask away.

 

[Technobuilder]

I appreciate the responses thus far. This is only a preliminary effort in beginning to reacquaint myself with what's current since the last computer I built. I just want to know what's out there now so I'll know to follow the progression.

I'm fond of the AMD chips myself, but with the Dual Cores and the new Quad Cores, I really don't know what's what with the new PC architectures and all of that.

Any other system recommendations are welcome, I appreciate the breakdown already posted too.

I guess once I understand the basics of the new chips and their pros and cons I can make a choice on Motherboard and such. then that would lead to a case and fans.

What about Power Supplies, minimum for 2 internal HDs, 2 Disc Drives, and a smattering of USB devices and external drives? 500w? 600w? more?

Cards:
-Video Cards: I'm crap with these, I never know what I need. Basically I want to be able to play Star Trek Online, Stargate Worlds, Civ 4, & Oblivion on Full whatever.
Some capturing ability OR TV options would be nice, but aren't necessary

-Sound Cars: On the Motherboard or PCI or something new?
-USB/Firewire/eSATA?

Does most of this come on the Motherboard now or what?

Do the current Motherboards with SATA support Ultra ATA 100 drives? All of my internal HDs at the moment are Ultra ATA 100 and I was curious about that.

Side Note:
I just got one of the new Seagate Free Agent Pro 750GB External HDs and it is NICE.

 

[Kurtman]

JonathonWally said:
I'd go with an AMD chip myself, cheaper than intels and more bang for your buck. You wanna go with the AM2 socket.

Even though AM2 X2s have dropped in price, the Core2Duo offers superior performance. They overclock phenomenally and will last you longer than the X2s.

However, there is new stuff coming this winter, so one would be better off waiting it out in any case.

 

[farmkid]

Before we get too far into recommendations, could you please let us know how you will be using the computer? Just normal email/internet/office stuff? Any modern games? Video editing?

The right computer parts for you will depend greatly on what you will use it for. For example, if you don't play any games, there's absolutely no reason to spend a lot of money on an expensive video card unless you are feeling particularly charitable toward the hardware manufacturer. If you are doing a lot of video editing, you should make a good CPU a high priority (quad core if you can afford it), but otherwise any modern processor will do just fine. So let us know what kinds of things you do with your computer and we can make better recommendations.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

I'm building my new PC with a Core 2 Quad 6600 (around $280), and Intel P35 chipset in a Gigabyte board.

I bought all my parts from www.mwave.com. If you want to know what parts work with what, you can easily browse their mothboard bundles to match parts.

Like others said, what are you using the PC for? What is your budget? I personally would avoid all AMD chips for now, and opt for a Quad. You simply cannot get a better price/performance ratio.

Or would that be performance/price?

 

[Technobuilder]

farmkid said:
Before we get too far into recommendations, could you please let us know how you will be using the computer? Just normal email/internet/office stuff? Any modern games? Video editing?

The right computer parts for you will depend greatly on what you will use it for. For example, if you don't play any games, there's absolutely no reason to spend a lot of money on an expensive video card unless you are feeling particularly charitable toward the hardware manufacturer. If you are doing a lot of video editing, you should make a good CPU a high priority (quad core if you can afford it), but otherwise any modern processor will do just fine. So let us know what kinds of things you do with your computer and we can make better recommendations.

Use:

-Email, Office Stuff, Internet -- YES

-Gaming -- YES (Not Hardcore but...I want to be able to play Star Trek Online, Stargate Worlds, Civ 4, & ES4: Oblivion. I'm not much of a hardcore gamer, but when I do play, I like to be ready to go.)

-Video Editing -- Not much, but I do so once and awhile.

I have a habit of Running multiple applications simultaneously and watching Video while I do other things (Like play Snood or Cubis II) and it can slow me down.

I guess I do a little bit of everything when I need to.

Price is always an issue, but at the same time, if it's essential, you sometimes go with quality and pay the price. I'm not looking for a "Fanboy system" by any means, but just something that will last me for the next 2 years at best and doesn't cost more than it's worth.

Thanks.

PS - Anyone take a look at my second post? I'm still wondering about some of what I asked in there too.

 

[farmkid]

Technobuilder said:
Use:

-Email, Office Stuff, Internet -- YES

-Gaming -- YES (Not Hardcore but...I want to be able to play Star Trek Online, Stargate Worlds, Civ 4, & ES4: Oblivion. I'm not much of a hardcore gamer, but when I do play, I like to be ready to go.)

-Video Editing -- Not much, but I do so once and awhile.

I have a habit of Running multiple applications simultaneously and watching Video while I do other things (Like play Snood or Cubis II) and it can slow me down.

I guess I do a little bit of everything when I need to.

Price is always an issue, but at the same time, if it's essential, you sometimes go with quality and pay the price. I'm not looking for a "Fanboy system" by any means, but just something that will last me for the next 2 years at best and doesn't cost more than it's worth.

Thanks.

PS - Anyone take a look at my second post? I'm still wondering about some of what I asked in there too.

In that case, I would recommend going with a dual core rather than a quad core. The reason is that the quad cores generally run at a lower clock speed and cost more. Of the activities you mentioned, only the gaming will give the CPU a workout at all and most games are not multithreaded. In gaming and general computing you will get better performance with a dual core running at a higher clock speed. Use the money you save on a better video card.

What about Power Supplies, minimum for 2 internal HDs, 2 Disc Drives, and a smattering of USB devices and external drives? 500w? 600w? more?

500W will probably get you by, but it wouldn't hurt to get a little more.

Cards:
-Video Cards: I'm crap with these, I never know what I need. Basically I want to be able to play Star Trek Online, Stargate Worlds, Civ 4, & Oblivion on Full whatever.
Some capturing ability OR TV options would be nice, but aren't necessary

If you're playing Oblivion, get all the video card you can afford. The nVidia GeForce 8000 series is probably your best bet right now.

-Sound Cars: On the Motherboard or PCI or something new?
-USB/Firewire/eSATA?

Does most of this come on the Motherboard now or what?

Do the current Motherboards with SATA support Ultra ATA 100 drives? All of my internal HDs at the moment are Ultra ATA 100 and I was curious about that.

All motherboards come with plenty of USB ports and sound onboard now. Onboard sound isn't anything special, but it's usually sufficient for most people.

Firewire is built in on some motherboards, but if you need Firewire, don't make it a priority. You can buy a decent PCI Firewire board for $10 now. Another tip: most Firewire cards have an internal port, which isn't very useful because most cases with front Firewire connectors connect to a 9-pin header. This one is the only one I've found that has an internal header, just like Firewire-equipped motherboards.

Every motherboard now comes with SATA connectors. Every one I've seen still has ATA connectors as well, but many now come with only one ATA channel, so you can connect only 2 drives, not 4. You may need to buy a new SATA hard drive if you don't have enough connections for your old drives. You can often find a good deal on hard drives in the Sunday newspaper ads. Most weeks there will be a couple of drives with rebates that make them a killer deal. Especially look at Fry's if there's one in your area. Fry's also has good deals on CPU/motherboard combos.

 

[Alaedhros]

Like Arrghman, I quite like Newegg. (Fry's is a cool place to shop, but there aren't any in TN.) I'd said JonathonWally covered just about everything else. Like him, I prefer AMD for the CPU, Corsair for the RAM, Pioneer for the optical drive, and Seagate for the hard drive.

As far as what's going on with CPUs lately, here's a quick rundown: After the Pentium 4 line was petering out, AMD had a great product line with some good prices. However, Intel came out with the Core architecture (based on the Pentium M, I believe) last year and AMD had no response, so Intel has been smacking them around recently as far as performance goes. The Core 2 Duos (and the new Quads) are definitely the highest performing right now, but AMD offers dual-core at a lower price point (their Athlon X2 line starts at $60ish on newegg, whilst Intel's Core 2 Duo line starts at $120ish). Since I'm a poor college student and the most CPU-intensive thing I do is compiling small programs, I prefer to save the dough and go with AMD. As JonathonWally said, more bang for the buck. Anyway, the big choice to make as far as CPUs boils down to this: AMD's Athlon X2 line or Intel's Core 2 Duo line. Of course, there are single-core options, which I think you said you wanted to avoid, and quad-core options, which are a bit too expensive for their performance at the moment.

As far as video cards go, if you're going nvidia then you'll probably need a high 7000 series or an 8000 series. You might pay a bit of a premium for an 8xxx, and it's not a huge performance increase--their big selling point is DX10 support, and I don't think you need that. (I know next to nothing about ATI, so I can't advise there.)

farmkid said:
Every motherboard now comes with SATA connectors. Every one I've seen still has ATA connectors as well, but many now come with only one ATA channel, so you can connect only 2 drives, not 4. You may need to buy a new SATA hard drive if you don't have enough connections for your old drives.

My mobo has four SATA connectors and two PATA, which is quite nice. If you can, find a mobo that supports two PATA, just in case. However, I'd recommend going SATA if you can--the extra bus speed can indeed be useful.

 

[Technobuilder]

Thanks for the answers, I really appreciate it.



One more thing...

Overclocking - What is it? How do you do it? What are the Pros & Cons?

What is the optimal running temp. of a cpu in a case. Basically what temp am I shooting for and are most cases designed to take air flow into account when full? I'm concerned with overheating issues. I'd hate to fry something.

 

[farmkid]

Technobuilder said:
Thanks for the answers, I really appreciate it.



One more thing...

Overclocking - What is it? How do you do it? What are the Pros & Cons?

What is the optimal running temp. of a cpu in a case. Basically what temp am I shooting for and are most cases designed to take air flow into account when full? I'm concerned with overheating issues. I'd hate to fry something.

It used to be that overclocking meant changing jumpers on the motherboard to change the multiplier and FSB speed. Now, however, it's just changing settings in the BIOS to change the clock of the CPU (most CPUs have locked multipliers now). The idea is to run the CPU faster until you hit the point where it won't run reliably anymore then back off a little.

If you want to overclock, the Core2 Duo CPUs are best at the moment. The lower end C2Ds can overclock more than 50% routinely. Aggressive cooling (liquid or high performance air cooling) permits even more extreme overclocking.

The upside is to get more performance for your buck. You can get the performance of a more expensive CPU for the price of an entry level part. The downside is it voids your warranty and can reduce the life of the CPU (to a few seconds if you're too enthusiastic). It can make your computer louder as the fans will have to run faster to remove the extra heat. If you're not doing anything that requires a lot of CPU performance, there's really no reason to overclock.

As far as temperatures go, cooler is better. I can't really give you exact numbers because I don't make a habit of overclocking. I've toyed with it, but not much. There are plenty of overclocking guides on various hardware sites that can give you more detailed info if you want to get into it.

 

[Technobuilder]

Okay, I probably won't bother overclocking then just because I'd rather have a margin of safety and would like to maximize the life of the system.

Thanks again.

Any other suggestions?

I'm pretty much getting that it's a toss up between AMD and Intel and that currently Intel has the edge. Are there any websites that you know of that compare the dual cores of both AMD and Intel so I can get a better idea of what's what?

 

[farmkid]

Technobuilder said:
Okay, I probably won't bother overclocking then just because I'd rather have a margin of safety and would like to maximize the life of the system.

Thanks again.

Any other suggestions?

I'm pretty much getting that it's a toss up between AMD and Intel and that currently Intel has the edge. Are there any websites that you know of that compare the dual cores of both AMD and Intel so I can get a better idea of what's what?

Try this one. You can choose any one of many benchmarks and get most of the latest CPUs' scores in that particular benchmark. You can choose two CPUs you are interested in and it will highlight them for you.

 

[Daedalus12]

At the moment you should get an Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600. You won't be disappointed with it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017

Other suggestions:

Make sure your case, PSU and MOBO are all quality. People will often try to save money on those components because they are not deemed as important as the CPU, Video card, etc. For the mobo you should get one that doesn't have chipset fans i.e. something like this that has heat pipes.

 

[Trubinator]

Use www.newegg.com for the parts. As for the individual part recommendations, they go as follows:

-processor: AMD Athlon 64 or Athlon FX. dual core is better for multi-taskers and tons of apps, single core is better for focused activities like gaming. just never buy intel..they suck.
-motherboard: ABIT is a great manufacturer. I'd buy one of their Nforce SLI models.
-video card: PCI express 16X from BFG Tech or EVGA. The 8800 GTX 768 MB card is a good pick.
-RAM: get some Kingston or Corsair memory, preferably low latency and 4 gigs of it. if you're using windows vista, remember that the operating system alone will consume half your memory.
-DVD R/W: SONY is a good brand, pick a +/- one with 8 mb cache
-hard drive(s): I'd go for a dual seagate or western digital 200 gig setup. put those puppies in a raid 0 config and you're good.
-power supply: I'd go for a 600 watt minimum. brand is up to you.
-cooling: ditch liquid cooling and use this setup instead: 4 80 & 120 mm ball bearing case fans & killer CPU fan/heatsink combo. just remember two things: 1: DB matters and so does your hearing. 2: always overestimate how much cooling you'll need...summer days will literally kill a processor if you get a cheapy stock cooler.
-monitor: ignore all no-name brands and either go with a mitsubishi or a samsung...19-22inch LCDs pwn.
-case: Lian Li is a great case manufacturer. They make 'em big with lots of space and room for customization. ALWAYS go big to make sure you get sufficient air flow inside the case.
-mouse: razer. accept no substitutes.
-keyboard: whatever the hell you want
-audio board: 7.1 setup. either go with creative even though they suck and grab an X-FI or do business with turtle beach.


That about does it for part recommendations. I'd offer some building advice, but there's really too much to list here. Computer knowledge comes from years of experience and an intuitive ability to troubleshoot parts and the like. My only other advice for you is to custom build everything. Repeat after me, "pre-built machines are for lumberjacks". Good.

Good luck with your build.

Oh! last minute advice. **never overclock** There are people who will tell you to do this, but pushing parts beyond their specifications will reduce the lifespan of said parts and potentially hurt their stability. You'll be better off just buying better hardware to begin with.

 

[Alaedhros]

farmkid said:
Try this one. You can choose any one of many benchmarks and get most of the latest CPUs' scores in that particular benchmark. You can choose two CPUs you are interested in and it will highlight them for you.

Wow, farmkid, thanks for that awesome link. Very cool to see and play around with.

Technobuilder said:
I'm pretty much getting that it's a toss up between AMD and Intel and that currently Intel has the edge. Are there any websites that you know of that compare the dual cores of both AMD and Intel so I can get a better idea of what's what?

From playing around with that website and from info from previous sources, here's my opinion: If you want to pay $150 or less for your CPU, your best bet is to go with AMD. If you're willing to pay more and you really want a high-end CPU, go Intel.

I compared the Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 and the AMD Athlon X2 5200+ (on Newegg, $125 and $130, respectively) as well as the C2D E6320 and the X2 6000+ ($165 and $170) on a half-dozen tests on the above site. AMD's beat Intel's quite handily on all of the tests for both CPUs. If you look at a chart of all the CPUs, it's easy to see that the Core 2 Duos are definitely on top as far as performance, but you'll have to pay around $200 or more to get something from Intel that you can't get for cheaper from AMD. Since you're not overclocking and since most bottlenecks in computers are not at the processor (excluding the obvious--high-end gaming, encoding, compiling), it seems to me that one of AMD's X2 processors would be the best bet. It's rare that you'll need the performance from the high-end C2Ds, and at a price point below $200 it seems as if AMD is out-performing Intel.

Disclaimer: Keep in mind this was a wildly unscientific and rather rough comparison (CPUs aren't really my area of interest). Please let me know if you think you see an error in my methods--I wouldn't be surprised if I overlooked something!

 

[Technobuilder]

^Unscientific maybe... But I appreciate the input.

Thanks for your thoughts