Which is why it was meant as an homage, and was not supposed to be taken as seriously as trufans tend to take stuff.
Build Up To NuKirks Death Meant Nothing
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Which is why it was meant as an homage, and was not supposed to be taken as seriously as trufans tend to take stuff.
I took it seriously, and it moved me.
Nope, I didn't laugh. Neither did people in the theater I was in.
Yes, it was an homage, taking from what has largely been considered the most popular Trek movie of all time. Regardless of the reasons why the writers choose it, I enjoyed it because it reflects both characters' arcs so well that I was in the moment with them, not thinking about TWOK, save for very surface level response.
Obviously, everyone will react differently, but I took it this way: NuSpock had a year of death. He lost Vulcan, and his mother. Then, he faced down death himself, only to be saved. Then Pike died. Kirk's death is the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back.
At that point I think Spock was going to snap. He was under intense strain, trying to reign in his emotions, and at every turn, there was someone dying, and all that experience of losing his mother, losing his planet, is back. At what point does that become too much to bear?
Nope, I didn't laugh. Neither did people in the theater I was in.
Yes, it was an homage, taking from what has largely been considered the most popular Trek movie of all time. Regardless of the reasons why the writers choose it, I enjoyed it because it reflects both characters' arcs so well that I was in the moment with them, not thinking about TWOK, save for very surface level response.
Obviously, everyone will react differently, but I took it this way: NuSpock had a year of death. He lost Vulcan, and his mother. Then, he faced down death himself, only to be saved. Then Pike died. Kirk's death is the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back.
At that point I think Spock was going to snap. He was under intense strain, trying to reign in his emotions, and at every turn, there was someone dying, and all that experience of losing his mother, losing his planet, is back. At what point does that become too much to bear?
For the audience I was among, including my family, the point at which the parallels became too much to bear was Spock's "Khaaan" moment. Lost it!
It always strikes me as odd each time you write that. It would seem to me that anyone defending the movie must take it seriously. For it to be taken less dramatically or seriously, it becomes parody.
Agreed. The death of Christopher Pike in that movie also meant nothing. Lame.
It was Kirk's motivation. Pike was his father figure. How would you feel? I have my complaints about the film, but this is not one of them. Saying Pike's death meant nothing is hyperbole for something else. I do really wish Pike had a role going forward. I'll really miss his presence. It may have been a franchise mistake to kill him off. Maybe that influences your feelings about it?
I did think he was a good character that could have been used later in the franchise. I felt like it was a cheap, pointless death. It was not needed to "motivate" Kirk.
Agreed. Pike dying was way to soon and lacked any kind of meaning. Also to give Kirk back his command just because Pike died was ridiculous. Pike reprimanded Kirk because he was being a dumbass. Kirk did nothing to get the flagship of the fleet back.
Kirk had proof of where Harrison went and presented himself to Marcus as the perfect patsy for starting the war with the Klingons. Marcus couldn't anticipate that Kirk would disobey the order to kill Harrison, thwarting the plan.
"You talked to him? Well, shit."
Kirk might not have deserved to have his command back, but the important thing is that he got it.
Marcus needed a patsy and Kirk served himself up.
On a silver platter.
Yup. Real Kirk would not have done such a bad job as NuKirk. NuKirk really screwed things up.
They are both Kirk. Both are fairly real, at least to my view. One is more experienced and the other did not have the same formative experiences, or the longer, more established Starfleet career to inform his experience.
As for Pike's death, I miss Pike something fierce. If they ever reboot Trek on TV I would like a show with Pike in charge of the Enterprise or Robau. I'll settle for either one. But, the senselessness of Pike's death works in a way that provides a reflection of Kirk's choice later on. Pike's death lacked meaning, the first death in Marcus' path to war, no doubt to be used as a face (along with Kirk's) of the Klingon savagery.
Instead, Pike's death frames Kirk's motivation, the drive to avenge his father figure, and then, to become the man Pike knew he would become. Pike's death is meaningless, until Kirk gives it meaning-by not allowing that death be in vain.
It was a crappy homage. We get a weepy crybaby Spock shouting Khan. I was embarrassed just watching it.
What? That's not what I meant at all. The scene was an homage, just like the scene in the first Predator movie where one of the hunter's skull trophies was the skull of the Alien from the Ridley Scott film. An homage is not the same as a parody. It's not meant to be over-analyzed to death. I'm sure the writers were well aware that the scene would induce different reactions for different people. But that's not meant as parody, just as a tribute. This very thread is filled with people who had different reactions to the scene, ranging from laughter, chuckling, cringing, surprise, delight, and indifference.
You're entitled to your opinion and your reaction, although by my count this is probably like the 20th time you've complained that Spock is a crybaby. We get it already.
Really? It's the first time I've noticed him described that way except by those snotty Vulcan boys from the first movie.
Really? It's the first time I've noticed him described that way except by those snotty Vulcan boys from the first movie.
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=264064
My mistake. He was originally bitching about nuKhan, and then switched to Spock later once his thread got locked. Either way, a meritless observation.
You've already had one thread closed for working the "crybaby" angle too hard, and a second closed for trying to start it up again with a different character. Now you're back for a third try, and this one'll get you a spamming warning. Comments to PM, if you please.
If you get embarrassed watching a movie, you're probably doing it wrong.
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