Build Up To NuKirks Death Meant Nothing

[Dales]

I don't think the scream was meant for comedy. I think it was meant as both a sign of Spock's deep felt grief and anger at another person's death. Again, this Spock has been surrounded by death since we have met him. Personally, I have had the moments where the is one more emotional event that pushes me over and want to scream in frustration.

That fact that it made people laugh speaks to the differences of an audience reaction, not to writers' intent.

Though, to be fair, Trek has its fair share of melodramatic moments.

oh? I had no idea. if that was their intention then it was an epic fail. spock showing grief and deep loss by channelling a scream that even shatner did as a parody and has been made a comic relief in our entertainment culture was definitely not the right way to go.

You know I rather enjoyed spock grief in the first film, even when he lost it and beat up kirk.

 

[shapeshifter]

Nobody laughed during the premier night screening I went to. Everyone in the theater was being quiet as church mice. There was a tension in the audience you could feel from the scene working as planned.

All the laughing and cutting up about the scene happened at later re-screenings. I really felt sorry for all the first time viewers having their first viewing spoiled by the inconsiderate few who'd already seen it and felt a need to act up.

 

[JWPlatt]

...That fact that it made people laugh speaks to the differences of an audience reaction, not to writers' intent...

Absolutely it was not the writers' intent. That's what made it cringeworthy and laughable.

 

[Dukhat]

...And it was humorous, because it was meant to be.

Really? Sorry, no.

Then why did so many people laugh?

 

[Franklin]

...And it was humorous, because it was meant to be.

Really? Sorry, no.

Then why did so many people laugh?

I don't remember hearing or reading anywhere that it was intended to be humorous. If it was, that was an odd time for levity. I think they just decided to take a chance by doing it, and at least for me, it worked. If it didn't work for others, so be it. I guess it may have depended how lost one was in the story. For what it's worth, no one laughed in the theater the times I saw it (including the full theater on opening night).

As I've posted on here before, to me, it was a better death scene than Spock's. I did hear some giggling once or twice in the theater during Spock's death scene. [Ducks for cover.]

The death scene also worked as a mirror image of Spock's because one was the ending of a beautiful and long friendship (caused by Khan), and one was the stifling of what should have been a long and deep friendship (again, caused by Khan).

There were more layers to the scene than the writers probably even intended. It took guts to do, and I think they probably knew what they were doing when they decided to do it and let the chips fall where they may. It was not just a shallow homage or a lazy rip off. It had to work within the story, and it did.

 

[fireproof78]

Really? Sorry, no.

Then why did so many people laugh?

I don't remember hearing or reading anywhere that it was intended to be humorous. If it was, that was an odd time for levity. I think they just decided to take a chance by doing it, and at least for me, it worked. If it didn't work for others, so be it. I guess it may have depended how lost one was in the story. For what it's worth, no one laughed in the theater the times I saw it (including the full theater on opening night).

As I've posted on here before, to me, it was a better death scene than Spock's. I did hear some giggling once or twice in the theater during Spock's death scene. [Ducks for cover.]

The death scene also worked as a mirror image of Spock's because one was the ending of a beautiful and long friendship (caused by Khan), and one was the stifling of what should have been a long and deep friendship (again, caused by Khan).

There were more layers to the scene than the writers probably even intended. It took guts to do, and I think they probably knew what they were doing when they decided to do it and let the chips fall where they may. It was not just a shallow homage or a lazy rip off. It had to work within the story, and it did.

Quoted for emphasis. I agree with this point. I don't find it cringeworthy (and there are many moments in Trek that I do find cringeworthy) or laughable. I'm sorry that many do because, like Franklin put it, it adds multiple layers upon Spock's arc that I find, well, fascinating.

 

[Cake]

Nobody laughed during the premier night screening I went to. Everyone in the theater was being quiet as church mice. There was a tension in the audience you could feel from the scene working as planned.

All the laughing and cutting up about the scene happened at later re-screenings. I really felt sorry for all the first time viewers having their first viewing spoiled by the inconsiderate few who'd already seen it and felt a need to act up.

Not true. I watched the movie right when it came out on the 8th May. Outside of a few big red carpet premieres with Star Trek actors present, it wasn't screened anywhere before. So no one with me in the cinema had seen the movie before. And there was still a lot of laughter.

 

[MacLeod]

But most of the time Spocks emotions in the series were due to a outside force of influence. NuSPock just loses it all the time. Even in STID he got jealous and lovesick when Kirk was giving Caol Marcus attention. Real Spock would never have done that.

I think you just don't understand Spock well enough. You just know the basics.

I know more than the basics. I have been watching the series for 30 years. Facts are facts NuSpock only lost it over the death of his mom and his entire world when NuKirk provoked him. He lost it much easier and more violently when a guy he knew for one year died. Sorry but it was also inconsistent they way the writers have written NuSpock. NuSpock is written badly and is not nearly the pillar of strength that Prime Spock was and that's counting the Cage when Prime Spock was younger.

There is the saying beware the quiet ones, so sure Spock might have lost it more easily over the loss of Kirk than his mother. But the loss of Kirk could have just been the tipping point for Spock.

That being said I'm not overly keen on that scene in the film. For me it was just a rehash of the scene in TWOK. Only not done as well. Sure intellectually I can understand what they where going for, but on an emotional level it fell flat for me at least.

 

[JWPlatt]

...And it was humorous, because it was meant to be.

Really? Sorry, no.

Then why did so many people laugh?

I just caught this. I don't think I'm special or different from others, so I would think others respond for at least some of the reasons I did and already stated above:

I think it's because we thought it was ridiculous in our disbelief of its sincere portrayal because it would have felt more at home in a spoof; like the pervasive joke that Shatner's version had become all across the internet. I couldn't believe the writers attempted it.

In other words, I was laughing at the writers - not with the scene. The thought that they were going for humor is momentarily worthy of consideration but still ludicrous.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

My reaction was thinking that Khan was well and truly fucked.

 

[fireproof78]

Really? Sorry, no.

Then why did so many people laugh?

I just caught this. I don't think I'm special or different from others, so I would think others respond for at least some of the reasons I did and already stated above:

I think it's because we thought it was ridiculous in our disbelief of its sincere portrayal because it would have felt more at home in a spoof; like the pervasive joke that Shatner's version had become all across the internet. I couldn't believe the writers attempted it.

In other words, I was laughing at the writers - not with the scene. The thought that they were going for humor is momentarily worthy of consideration but still ludicrous.

I honestly don't think that the writers were going for humor, but I have not listened to the commentary to know for certain. Having people react differently than what was meant is probably more frustrating than anything else, I would think.

As for the scene itself, well, I think it is all in how individuals respond to the characters. I don't think anyone expected Spock to respond that way, though (for me) it flows from the character's arc, that he has emotions that are bubbling beneath the surface.

Beyond that, I think that "KHAAAAN!" is so ingrained in to Trek culture that anyone else doing is going to be taken as parody, regardless of author intent.

 

[Dales]

Then why did so many people laugh?

I just caught this. I don't think I'm special or different from others, so I would think others respond for at least some of the reasons I did and already stated above:

I think it's because we thought it was ridiculous in our disbelief of its sincere portrayal because it would have felt more at home in a spoof; like the pervasive joke that Shatner's version had become all across the internet. I couldn't believe the writers attempted it.

In other words, I was laughing at the writers - not with the scene. The thought that they were going for humor is momentarily worthy of consideration but still ludicrous.

I honestly don't think that the writers were going for humor, but I have not listened to the commentary to know for certain. Having people react differently than what was meant is probably more frustrating than anything else, I would think.

As for the scene itself, well, I think it is all in how individuals respond to the characters. I don't think anyone expected Spock to respond that way, though (for me) it flows from the character's arc, that he has emotions that are bubbling beneath the surface.

Beyond that, I think that "KHAAAAN!" is so ingrained in to Trek culture that anyone else doing is going to be taken as parody, regardless of author intent.

right on, I would have looked passed the reharsh of kirk's death ,if spock did not go on and scream KHAN. It was just too much.

 

[urbandefault]

I didn't laugh, I cringed. It's the only part of the movie that I really dislike.

 

[mos6507]

And it was humorous, because it was meant to be. But it certainly wasn't all that big a deal.

The Enterprise as a sub and some of the other humor happened when you weren't supposed to be so emotionally invested.

It's a big deal because it happened at what was meant to be the dramatic climax of the film, and so it pulled you right out of the moment and reminded you you are watching a film with writers who are self-consciously "riffing" and expecting you to go "ah, I know what you did there, wasn't that clever?" To a lesser extent, the old-Spock Skype call also came across that way. It attempted to pander to fans too transparently.

 

[Dukhat]

It's a big deal because it happened at what was meant to be the dramatic climax of the film, and so it pulled you right out of the moment and reminded you you are watching a film with writers who are self-consciously "riffing" and expecting you to go "ah, I know what you did there, wasn't that clever?" To a lesser extent, the old-Spock Skype call also came across that way. It attempted to pander to fans too transparently.

Yeah, I agree. And yet I still contend that it wasn't that big a deal.

 

[fireproof78]

I just caught this. I don't think I'm special or different from others, so I would think others respond for at least some of the reasons I did and already stated above:


In other words, I was laughing at the writers - not with the scene. The thought that they were going for humor is momentarily worthy of consideration but still ludicrous.

I honestly don't think that the writers were going for humor, but I have not listened to the commentary to know for certain. Having people react differently than what was meant is probably more frustrating than anything else, I would think.

As for the scene itself, well, I think it is all in how individuals respond to the characters. I don't think anyone expected Spock to respond that way, though (for me) it flows from the character's arc, that he has emotions that are bubbling beneath the surface.

Beyond that, I think that "KHAAAAN!" is so ingrained in to Trek culture that anyone else doing is going to be taken as parody, regardless of author intent.

right on, I would have looked passed the reharsh of kirk's death ,if spock did not go on and scream KHAN. It was just too much.

I err more on the side of appreciating Kirk's death more. I get that many don't like the over-the-top aspect of Quinto's performance, but I didn't mind it, mostly because Pine's death scene was so well done, to me.

 

[shapeshifter]

Nobody laughed during the premier night screening I went to. Everyone in the theater was being quiet as church mice. There was a tension in the audience you could feel from the scene working as planned.

All the laughing and cutting up about the scene happened at later re-screenings. I really felt sorry for all the first time viewers having their first viewing spoiled by the inconsiderate few who'd already seen it and felt a need to act up.

Not true. I watched the movie right when it came out on the 8th May. Outside of a few big red carpet premieres with Star Trek actors present, it wasn't screened anywhere before. So no one with me in the cinema had seen the movie before. And there was still a lot of laughter.

Para Mobius plants.

 

[Set Harth]

They're sprouting up like weeds!

 

[seigezunt]

I didn't laugh, I cringed. It's the only part of the movie that I really dislike.

This.

I generally like this movie, and defend it, but this portion of the film left me cold.

I haven't read this whole thread, so I'm sure I'm repeating somebody, but Spock's death in TWOK had impact because we had accumulated years of experience with the characters. We don't have a history with NuKirk and NuSpock yet, so it just felt like it was milking someone else's nostalgia.

 

[TRON JA307020]

I didn't laugh, I cringed. It's the only part of the movie that I really dislike.

This.

I generally like this movie, and defend it, but this portion of the film left me cold.

I haven't read this whole thread, so I'm sure I'm repeating somebody, but Spock's death in TWOK had impact because we had accumulated years of experience with the characters. We don't have a history with NuKirk and NuSpock yet, so it just felt like it was milking someone else's nostalgia.

Exactly. There was at most a 1 year history for NuSpock and NuKirk. For NuSpock to go bonkers after NuKirks death seemed silly and a poor copy of what we saw in TWOK. STID stunk on so many levels.