Buffyverse Mysteries

[Admiral2]

Actually, the only Wolfram and Hart mystery I can't fathom is what the hell is so scary about a hart? It's like a male deer, right? I can see how scary a wolf is, or even a ram, but what the hell is so scary about a deer that it's part of Angel's triumvirate of evil? I mean, this is an animal too stupid to get out of the way of a moving car when you shine your brights at it, but it's a senior partner???

They are all primordial spirits or gods, pagan gods (of good by the way). It's really rather weird that these gods of good are depicted as evil - arbitrary, I might add:

The Wolf - the noble beast, the warrior noble in many legends, most notably part of the creation myth of the Native Americans, where he is sent after the Raven that stole the Moon. When he finds the raven he finds out the bird only stole the moon to protect it from something much nastier. They defeat the real evil and restore the moon to its rightful place. Fenrir the Wolf of Viking myths is about the only wolf I can think of in Pagan mythology that is evil. Of course, Odin had three wolves as pets that fought by his side so...

Ram / Hart - Are both avatars of the horned god, Cernunnos, aka Saturn, and his original incarnation: Enki (and as such Eya, Ya, Yawheh). He's the god that dies at harvest time, and rises again at the winter solstice, in the process vanquishing death and keeping all the nasties trapped in the underworld where they belong, as well as bringing warmth and life back to the world. Amongst his many titles: vanquisher of death, protector of the light, creator and guardian of mankind, god of the abyss, god of the underworld, god of fertility, and god of virility. (This god, is the inspiration for the depiction of Satan/the Devil, so that might have something to do with choosing it as god-like demons of evil. Tara would have loved to have a little word with Joss & co. about this.)

Thank you for the explanation. Now it makes sense.

 

[DS9Continuing]

I'd like to know more about Whistler. He appeared in "Becoming, Part One" and "Becoming, Part Two," and IIRC he was intended to be in Angel but was replaced by Doyle instead.

I tend to just conflate the two as one character anyway. Both Irish, both possessed of visions from the PTBs, both assigned to rehabilitate Angel and put him on the path of righteousness... may as well just be a recast.

I would've liked to have seen Spike's character explored further beyond the limited time allotted to him on BtVS/AtS.

I lol.

I'd like to learn more about W&H and the Senior Partners too. We even found out the name of one of them in 4.01 'Deep Down'
Although it does seem an odd name for a big scary

I tend to think that was one of those cases where they just hadn't thought things through as thoroughly as they could have yet. They hadn't really pinned down what they wanted the Senior partners to be, and thought they'd throw something out there, which turned out in retrospect to be the wrong way to go, so they just ignored it.

If you want to retcon it, we could just say that Mr Suvarta was one of the Circle of the Black Thorn, the representatives of the Senior Partner on the earthly plane, and Linwood was just abbreviating.

While we're on the subject, I've always wondered if anyone has compiled a historical chronological listing of all of the Darla, Angel, & Spike flashbacks.

Ask and you shall recieve. Hope you know your episode titles

Now I want a YouTube clip.

The Girl In Question - 1950’s Italy - Spike & Dru hang out in Italy

"Ciao!"

I piss my pants every time. I can't believe they went to such trouble of costuming and casting extras and building a set for such a minuscule clip, but I'm glad they did!

There is also perhaps the Buffyverse's greatest unexplained mystery: Just what is the Cheese Man, anyway?

Random.

Well I know Joss says so himself, but the things the Cheese Man says do seem to be applicable to the characters.

 

[Anwar]

Like I said, I don't think that having cloven hands and feet are supposed to be signs of greater vampiric age. The Master, Kakistos and the Prince of Lies are all supposed to be ancient vampires but all three look different. They don't look like they're all converging on some common appearance, which implies that when a Buffyverse Vampire gets to that age that they can't take human form anymore it represents itself but never in the same way. In the Master's case, he got his bat-snout, in Kakistos case it was the hoofs and in the Prince of Lies case it was his appearance. So the cloven hoofs aren't a sign of him being OLDER than the Master, just a sign of great vampiric age.

 

[3D Master]

Like I said, I don't think that having cloven hands and feet are supposed to be signs of greater vampiric age.

That's nice for you, you're also dead wrong. Giles says it straight to everyone's face. "Kakistos is the oldest vampire in existence. He's so old, his and hands and feet are cloven."

The Master, Kakistos and the Prince of Lies are all supposed to be ancient vampires but all three look different. They don't look like they're all converging on some common appearance, which implies that when a Buffyverse Vampire gets to that age that they can't take human form anymore it represents itself but never in the same way. In the Master's case, he got his bat-snout, in Kakistos case it was the hoofs and in the Prince of Lies case it was his appearance. So the cloven hoofs aren't a sign of him being OLDER than the Master, just a sign of great vampiric age.

The master is only 800 or so years old. While Kakistos was over 2,000. Live with it.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

I would have liked a better explanation of who The Powers that Be are and why Angel and his crew felt compelled to obey them.

It may have been explained in the pilot, or in later seasons of Angel but having watched the series through only once, I don't recall.

 

[Anwar]

Like I said, I don't think that having cloven hands and feet are supposed to be signs of greater vampiric age.

That's nice for you, you're also dead wrong. Giles says it straight to everyone's face. "Kakistos is the oldest vampire in existence. He's so old, his and hands and feet are cloven."

The Master, Kakistos and the Prince of Lies are all supposed to be ancient vampires but all three look different. They don't look like they're all converging on some common appearance, which implies that when a Buffyverse Vampire gets to that age that they can't take human form anymore it represents itself but never in the same way. In the Master's case, he got his bat-snout, in Kakistos case it was the hoofs and in the Prince of Lies case it was his appearance. So the cloven hoofs aren't a sign of him being OLDER than the Master, just a sign of great vampiric age.

The master is only 800 or so years old. While Kakistos was over 2,000. Live with it.

Giles also said that the Master was the oldest living vampire, so either he wasn't up on ancient vampires at the time or Kakistos was now the oldest since the Master no longer existed at that point in the show. I know the attitude towards wikipedia, but this seems to have been put together by fans who knew their sh*t: http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Master#Powers_and_abilities. Nothing in the show states the Master is only 800 years old.

 

[Ethros]

I tend to just conflate the two as one character anyway. Both Irish, both possessed of visions from the PTBs, both assigned to rehabilitate Angel and put him on the path of righteousness... may as well just be a recast.

Whistler was Irish? I don't think so.