Bruce Wayne vs. Tony Stark (when was the last time this came up?)

[Nerys Myk]

Also, the Super-Soldier formula altered Cap's biology to the point where he doesn't ever get tired (at least, he's not supposed to). No fatigue at all, that's far beyond peak human endurance.

That was a stupid late addition to his backstory. The SSF had a specific goal and one that worked fine for decades till some "genius" thought gee how can Cap do XYZ? The sort of overthinking that drags comics down. Most other "costume athletes" do the same tricks with out the SSF.

 

[Anwar]

It's no worse than how they made Batman into a Gary Stu who cannot be legitimately beaten by anyone outside of his own books (where even normal thugs can land a punch on him). At least they still had Cap NOT become a Gary Stu in the process of giving him a few upgrades.

 

[arch101]

On the flipside of all this, think of what a potent TEAM Stark and Wayne would be. I'd buy that graphic novel if someone would write it.

 

[Samurai8472]

:insert given "time to prepare" joke here:

Batman kicks people's asses easily and has been trained in a variety of martial arts and other disciplines. Even with the suit on he's not given much advantage as all the suit is is just a costume that offers him some protection from knives and bullets with maybe a bit of padding.

Tony Stark needs his suit to do his entire shtick! Without the suit Tony Stark is just another dickheaded billionaire way out of his league against Wayne who is a fully-trained fighter.

The ref would say "Fight" in a fury of blurs, fists, and kicks the next thing Tony would see would be himself laying on a mat with all of his teeth scattered around him.

And the whole time he's yelling "Not in the face! Not in the face!!!"

It's Ivan Drago VS Apollo Creed all over

Tony would make a showy entrance with Iron Women dancing.

Bruce would stand there stone faced.

 

[Mr Light]

If the Super Soldier serum doesn't make you super-human why in the world would there this massive global race to re-create it?

 

[Admiral_Young]

The SSS genetically enhances you to superior levels. Thank Khan from Star Trek for example. Khan wasn't invulnerable but he was genetically enhanced through augmentation and various other means. Steve Rogers entire physiology changed to give him increased strength, speed, endurance, agility, vision, and hearing. He is considered "perfect" through his conditioning and training. He's still pretty impressive despite not being invulnerable and would be in demand by any army. The Red Skull was the Nazi's attempt at making a super-solider and they wanted to steal the US's more refined version.

 

[Nerys Myk]

If the Super Soldier serum doesn't make you super-human why in the world would there this massive global race to re-create it?

Because having an army of peak human soldiers is very desirable.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's no worse than how they made Batman into a Gary Stu who cannot be legitimately beaten by anyone outside of his own books (where even normal thugs can land a punch on him). At least they still had Cap NOT become a Gary Stu in the process of giving him a few upgrades.

Not a fan of that either.

Cap didn't need any technobable "upgrade" to explain what he does. He's a physically perfect human, end of story.

The Red Skull was the Nazi's attempt at making a super-solider and they wanted to steal the US's more refined version.

The Skull aquired his abilities the hard way. He trained and studied. (Hitler was his prime teacher) He didn't get any version of the SSF until he tranfered his mind into a clone of Steve Rogers. Master Man was the Nazi super soldier. A later retcon said that the SSF was created by german scientist who escaped the Nazi and the ID of "Captain America" was created to counter the Red Skull who was wreaking havoc and terror in Europe. In the comics Cap doesn't meet the "real Red Skull" until Captain America Comics #7.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Back to the OP, what's getting left out here is that Tony Stark designs and builds his equipment from scratch, the original built with hand tools in a cave. In the early years it was also a theme that the pods on his hips carried toolkits so he could build unique weapons and devices in the field.

Bruce Wayne is certainly a genius in his own way, but a genius detective and profiler. He is not an inventor in anywhere near Tony Stark's league, he is dependent on Wayne Industries technology and his R&D development. Bruce's tech savy and certainly has equipement made to his custom specs but in terms of preparing it would be like this: Tony Stark would win the first round; Bruce would come up with something clever to win the second; Tony Stark would win the third after redesigning and upgrading his armour and preparing for Batman's tricks.

I remember one Marvel vs DC where Bruce jabbed a nerve center in the Hulk's solar plexus causing him to inhale some knockout gas. Yeah, right. If want to pick and choose, the writers have come up with just about everything over the years. I think an interesting match would be the Nolan movie Bruce Wayne vs the Iron Man movie Tony Stark. I think it would play out pretty close to what I wrote above: Tony wins, Bruce wins, Tony wins. Fourth round is up in the air.

Ultimately Bruce's greatest power should be figuring out what his target is after and getting one step ahead. If the target is Tony, and Tony wants justice, the battle would end right there.

 

[Admiral2]

Indeed. As much as everyone jokes that Batman prepares for everything, there is a reason why he does so...he's smart. He's arguably one of the smartest men in the DCU. Not maybe on par with Tony but he's not an idiot. Are we maybe giving Bruce too much credit? Maybe. Tony's no slouch but he's still not in Batman's class combat wise. If Tony is not in his suit, he will get owned by Bruce on a straight mano et mano fight.

Exactly my point. If, which means Tony won't go near Bruce/Bats in a fight situation without the suit. (Or if it's not handy, he'll have half of Stark Industries Security surrounding him.)

 

[auntiehill]

Well, Bruce is far more of a bad-ass, but Tony throws MUCH better parties.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Indeed. As much as everyone jokes that Batman prepares for everything, there is a reason why he does so...he's smart. He's arguably one of the smartest men in the DCU. Not maybe on par with Tony but he's not an idiot. Are we maybe giving Bruce too much credit? Maybe. Tony's no slouch but he's still not in Batman's class combat wise. If Tony is not in his suit, he will get owned by Bruce on a straight mano et mano fight.

Exactly my point. If, which means Tony won't go near Bruce/Bats in a fight situation without the suit. (Or if it's not handy, he'll have half of Stark Industries Security surrounding him.)

Does Tony travel with security? The only bodyguard I recall him having is a guy named "Iron Man".

 

[KB24]

I'm not up on Tony Stark, but I do have to ask if its been done elsewhere yet or is a considerable possibility. Will we ever have a show onscreen do the retirement of Wayne with the Sword of Azrael plotline?

After Bale's finished, will we be Wayned out? Or should films never acknowledge the change? I only wonder because it might be a different, fresh way to go eventually. Does Nolan intend to do this with his Selena Kyle/Catwoman who does eventually marry Wayne? I guess its a way to keep Batman fresh in a few years when someone will feel the need to reboot Batman again to keep up with this next superhero wave.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Bruce marrying Selena is Pre-Crisis. Anything else that has been alluded to as happening in the future is debatable at best if it will ever happen in a storyline.

Batman will always be Bruce Wayne as far as Hollywood is concerned. Nolan may not even make another Batman movie after DKR.

As far as the OP. I'd have to give it to Bruce as Marvel characters on the whole are inheirently flawed. Tony has his alchoholism, and has been manipulated by Immortus, and has been replaced with a Tony Stark from an alternate universe as "our" Tony had turned evil.

Tony Stark makes mistakes whereas Bruce Wayne doesn't. At least none that he'd admit to.

 

[Anwar]

Which is why Marvel's characters are genuine characters, and not a bunch of archetypes like DC.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Which is why Marvel's characters are genuine characters, and not a bunch of archetypes like DC.

When you're first you get to be archetypes.

Though Marvel hasa few:

Captain America: patriotic hero archetype

Spider-Man: hard luck hero archetype

Thing: Tragic hero archetype

Sub-Mariner: Anti hero archetype

Wolverine: Psycho hero archetype.

And DC's heroes stopped being cookie cutter do gooders with no real personalities decades ago.

 

[Sephiroth]

all Wayne needs is a bottle of scotch under a box propped up with a stick to pull out to beat Stark

 

[Admiral_Young]

Tony's been sober for a number of years now so that won't work

 

[Mr Light]

>>Tony Stark makes mistakes whereas Bruce Wayne doesn't. At least none that he'd admit to.

Actually for a five year period or so leading up to Infinite Crisis Batman was making nothing BUT mistakes. First he abandoned Gotham City when the earthquake hit leaving everyone to think he didn't care about them (in reality he was in Washington trying to convince the government to reclaim the city). Then, when he DID come back finally, he misunderstood the nature of No Man's Land and lost all his lands to the bad guys. This was also his "Bat-Dick" period where he drove everyone away even his friends like Oracle and Gordon and basically tried to manipulate and control everyone from afar. This reached its unfortunate pinnacle when he constructed Brother Eye, a supercomputer to watch his fellow superheroes (after he learned they wiped his memory of their mentally altering their villains) which eventually went nuts and killed thousands of people. At this point he had a moment of clarity and went off on a spiritual journey for a year and reinvented himself.

 

[infinix]

Which is why Marvel's characters are genuine characters, and not a bunch of archetypes like DC.

There is no question that Superman was THE superhero archetype. But Batman is the polar opposite of Superman. When you sit down and try to write a superman story, there are a lot of limits to what he would or wouldn't do.

When you sit down and try to write a batman story, pretty much anything goes (except firearms.) He blackmails people, forms questionable alliances, does exactly what needs to be done, all the while adheres to his own sense of justice. Hell, the man had plans to take out the entire JL if he felt it was called for.

Maybe he is the anti-hero archetype? But I guess since he was the first....