Britain's Express Trains to be Built by Japanese Firm.

[All Seeing Eye]

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

I do, but you don't understand there's a much bigger picture to all this.

It's called cause and effect. It's like a stack of dominoes, set off the first domino (a contract to the British firm) and it causes the rest to topple one by, the rest being jobs for local workers, tax to the government, more money to local businesses, stimulation of the economy etc

Giving the contract to the Japanese is like toppling just one Domino with no further dominos effected.

 

[Scout101]

That's what you're supposed to decide when figuring out a project. Out of 3 principles (Fast, Cheap, High Quality), you're supposed to pick which TWO of those 3 are the most important to you, and design towards that. People often try to demand all 3, but it's definitely a triangle. For example, if you want a product to be cheaper, and delivered faster, it won't be as high quality. If you want VERY high quality, it's either going to take longer, or cost more.

Tacky seems to be saying that they should have awarded the contract to a firm that can do NONE of the 3 principles (will cost more, take longer, and be lesser quality) and be happy with that decision.

Sure, awarding this contract to a company that cannot currently build a train, and doesn't have the employees, equipment, or knowledge to do so WILL stimulate the economy, but the project will cost orders of magnitude more, take years longer as the company gears up, and likely still be shit, as they've never built one before, after all.

Wouldn't it be better to buy the cheap train from the experienced vendor that can produce it on a set schedule, and then take the savings and help the people and programs Tacky was talking about?

 

[ShamelessMcBundy]

California is studying a High Speed train between Sacramento ,LA and San Diego..with a 2 hour travel time from Sac To LA...would be nice...

http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/map.htm

While the proposition for that passed in November, due to our budget crisis, i doubt it'll be built anytime soon.

maybe.. or maybe not..
http://www.dailycal.org/article/104074/federal_stimulus_package_may_help_fund_california_

Well, let's hope.

ETA: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090217/ap_on_bi_ge/california_budget Looks like not.

 

[Scout101]

It's called cause and effect. It's like a stack of dominoes, set off the first domino (a contract to the British firm) and it causes the rest to topple one by, the rest being jobs for local workers, tax to the government, more money to local businesses, stimulation of the economy etc

Any evidence that they would hire all local workers? They don't know how to build the product, so they'll have to bring in outside help. What with the migrant worker situation in England at the moment, seems like foreign workers might jump at these kinds of jobs as well, another source of pay for manual labor-type jobs.

Or would the contract with this firm have English-only workers provisions in it?

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Tacky seems to be saying that they should have awarded the contract to a firm that can do NONE of the 3 principles

The British firm involved has built trains for years. It's not some new startup firm without a clue about trains.

Or would the contract with this firm have English-only workers provisions in it?

I would imagine after the recent strikes the workforce would be mixed with a sizable percentage being British.

 

[Scout101]

Then why didn't they win the contract?

Like I said, came in more expensive, lesser quality, or would take longer...

 

[John Picard]

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

I do, but you don't understand there's a much bigger picture to all this.

It's called cause and effect. It's like a stack of dominoes, set off the first domino (a contract to the British firm) and it causes the rest to topple one by, the rest being jobs for local workers, tax to the government, more money to local businesses, stimulation of the economy etc

Giving the contract to the Japanese is like toppling just one Domino with no further dominos effected.

Economics DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT!!!

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Then why didn't they win the contract?

Like I said, came in more expensive, lesser quality, or would take longer...

Yeh, but the question is by how much? for the sake a measly few hundred or maybe thousand quid which is absolute chicken feed the contract could have gone to the British firm and the little extra cost caused by it would have been very quickly made back up and overtaken by the tax made, unemployment benefit saved and economic benefits.

Economics DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT!!!

Yes, it does im afraid.

 

[John Picard]

Then why didn't they win the contract?

Like I said, came in more expensive, lesser quality, or would take longer...

Yeh, but the question is by how much? for the sake a measly few hundred or maybe thousand quid which is absolute chicken feed the contract could have gone to the British firm and the little extra cost caused by it would have been very quickly made back up and overtaken by the tax made, unemployment benefit saved and economic benefits.

Economics DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT!!!

Yes, it does im afraid.

This is too much

 

[nevermore]

Tacky seems to be saying that they should have awarded the contract to a firm that can do NONE of the 3 principles

The British firm involved has built trains for years. It's not some new startup firm without a clue about trains.

By "British firm", I assume you mean Bombardier? Which was founded and is headquartered in Quebec? And is thus totally not a "British firm" but a multi-national conglomerate with a single relevant facility in England? Where, as others have pointed out, they would have likely only assembled the parts produced elsewhere?

In other words, no "British firms" bid for the job. Because they don't exist.

Or would the contract with this firm have English-only workers provisions in it?

I would imagine after the recent strikes the workforce would be mixed with a sizable percentage being British.

Yes, the strikes would absolutely have that effect. Becasue that's totally how the world works.

 

[JoeZhang]

I'm not sure why this was portrayed in the media as Japan vs Britain - it was consortium A vs consortium B both of which had British companies involved and foreign partners.

The consortium that won was lead by a British company and the contract will safeguard British jobs and indeed create them (70% of the contract is earmarked for the UK) - the end effect is pretty much the same as (if the news reports are correct) the train shells would have been constructed in Canada if the Bombardier consortium had won the contract.

I can only conclude that Bombardiers PR people did a good job with the media spinning this in the hope it would cause a rethink and they could make it appear as if they were some plucky British company being outdone by Johnny Foreigner.

Sounds like another non-story like the one about the energy workers - that all went away when the independent report found no evidence they were being paid less than the British workforce.

Why is Tachyon Shield against British companies like John Laird getting work over a canadian company? Doesn't he believe in supporting british industry against foreign incomers?

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Yes, the strikes would absolutely have that effect. Becasue that's totally how the world works.

But that's how it did work. 198 jobs at the lindsey oil refinery were going to the portuguese but now because of the strikes only 97 are going to the portuguese and 101 jobs are going to British workers and government MPs have been reviewing ways of how to change the way jobs are given out to ensure Brits aren't discriminated against.

So, ya know, do some research me hearty.

 

[JoeZhang]

Yes, the strikes would absolutely have that effect. Becasue that's totally how the world works.

But that's how it did work. 198 jobs at the lindsey oil refinery were going to the portuguese but now because of the strikes only 97 are going to the portuguese and 101 jobs are going to British workers and government MPs have been reviewing ways of how to change the way jobs are given out to ensure Brits aren't discriminated against.

So, ya know, do some research me hearty.

And you know the big story about "evil" europe this week? If we have incorporated the agency worker directive like pretty much every other european state, BMW wouldn't have been able to just dismiss 850 workers this week.

 

[nevermore]

Yes, the strikes would absolutely have that effect. Becasue that's totally how the world works.

But that's how it did work. 198 jobs at the lindsey oil refinery were going to the portuguese but now because of the strikes only 97 are going to the portuguese and 101 jobs are going to British workers and government MPs have been reviewing ways of how to change the way jobs are given out to ensure Brits aren't discriminated against.

So, ya know, do some research me hearty.

A token concession in a specific case does not equal systemic change.

 

[TedShatner10]

It is strange why we (Britain) have different fiefdoms for a railway network, that is a inherently inefficient set up that would lead to inconsistancies and squabbling. And while I'm sort of glad the contract is going to an overseas company that is good at what it does, it also shows how pathetic we are at directly manufacturing things mostly by ourselves and even the recent line of Minis is under the supervision of BMW, while Land Rover has been bought out by a Chinese company (although to be fair we've got waaaaay too many cars to begin with and car production is plummeting worldwide anyway).