Bring them Back! Moffat Style..

[starsuperion]

As i think back to the Tennant Years, and that mythical tv spot for the Christmas special wherein the Doctor took a fanciful flight sitting aboard his Tardis pulled by flying reindeer, I am frustrated and impatient to say the least.

That TV spot in retrospect, and subsequent storylines make it seem like the Doctor is some fairy tale character from a children's mythological story or some such nonsense. I for one am happy to see that Moffat has brought about another time lord into the mix in the latest installment of series six.

Now I know there are some who pride themselves on revelling in the story line and theme of "The Doctor, last of the time lords." But honestly, It has been much too long since the race has been dead. To have the doctor magically flying around in the "christmas carol" on a sleigh with flying fish is another image that perplexes my science fiction sensabilities.

I am hopeful that with todays production values and CGI that Moffat will finally bring the Time Lords back and in style. The whole contrived last of the race and magical being aspect of the show to-date has really begun to errode my fascination with the show as a whole. Being the central figure of the program, I am okay with the story being centered on the Doctor.

However, with the loss of the Time Lords, and the mythical and out right nonsensical fantasy applied to the show and the character lately it just seems like less science fiction and more of magic and fairy tales. With the Time Lords back we would have more of a foundation of that civilization to fall back on, and would temper the "mythical and Magical status" that seems to be the over riding theme in the New Doctor who series.

Being an exceptional member of a society on the run from them, as apposed to the lone "superman" roaming the galaxy able to defeat any enemy which is a little pretencious In my humble opinion, would be more in line with the series that I remember from a classical stand point. I long for the days of clandestine covert ops being directed by the Celestial Intervention agency, or relics and strange weaponry from the dark days of Rassilon's rule..Not to mention the appearance of other Tardises and other Time Lord characters to expand the horizon of the enemies list, or even allies on par with the Doctor..

It's been 7 years that we have suffered with the loss of all the Doctor's grounded scientific society and the lore surrounding them or their continued presence in the continuity of the show..It's time to bring that back. It is time in my opinion, to put some solid feet to the ground, and not fly in the clouds with fish driving the carriage off to never never land.

If there was any writer/director who I could see bringing them back and doing it in style and justice to their majestic status, it would be Mr. Moffat.

I know many here will disagree with my point of view but it is my opinion alone, and not meant to offend or incite vitrial..however for those who can not help themselves, let the Slaughter begin.

 

[Sindatur]

I too have always liked the visits to Gallifrey, and the Time Lords episodes in general, I'd be happy to see them returned to their glory and be used every couple/few seasons

 

[captcalhoun]

*waits for Sci to come in and start slagging off the Time Lords*

 

[Icemizer]

Personally dont care if the Lords of Galifrey return. What I would like to see is the vacuum of the Time Lords filled by another race that has no compulsion about interfering in time to gain power. This would give the Doctor a new and powerful enemy, which is always a good thing.

 

[Thestral]

You've seen Moffat's stories and the way he's running the show, right?

And you think he's the guy to get rid of the "fairy tale/mystical" angle?

 

[Count Zero]

Also, Doctor Who was never scientifically grounded. It was always full of the most nonsensical science, to the point where I roll my eyes at it rather often.
If there's a good storyline in it, I wouldn't mind a comeback of the Timelords but on the other hand, I really this tragic note to the Doctor's character.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I must admit, I've never really been awfully keen on the 'last of the Timelords' thing and always liked the idea of the Doctor being an outcast or runaway from his own powerful people. I thought that TEOT would see them return and that Ten would regenerate, content in the knowledge that he had saved his people (thus losing that survivor's guilt).

I think they will be back at some stage and the groundwork seems to being laid by hints running through the current season. We used to hear talk of seeing Gallifrey burn but now it seems it's 'merely' locked away in time, so it doesn't seem to be beyond the realms of possibility that it and they will be back.

 

[VDCNI]

Yeah and 'grounded scientific society'!? When were the time lords ever like that - apart from vague suggestions that their technology was powered by black holes we never got any real idea of their capabilities. They were used more as a royal court than anything else in the 1970's and 80's.

I find it amusing when anyone tries to suggest that the new series has left Doctor Who's science fiction roots behind in some way. The old shows science was always a bit wobbly to say the least - it just used science fiction trappings to tell the stories it wanted to tell.

 

[Skellington]

Having no Time Lords also removes an obvious problem with the credibility of certain plots. If he's facing a truly universe-threatening problem, why doesn't he raise the alarm straight away? Even if they need to synchronise with him in terms of the passage of time (which is not an element of NuWho), they can be there in minutes.

On a side note, if one takes the view that the removal of the Time Lords "rebooted" the timeline in some way, then maybe when they return they won't be alone. What if there are other bubbles representing sequestered events, and one of them is opened along with the one containing Gallifrey? It could be that the political map of the universe will be something that we haven't quite seen before.

 

[Psion]

One cool aspect of the Time War that causes EJA endless distress, and me endless delight is the bizarre, "right-angle to time" flow of the Time Lords' time line. This notion that, no matter where you are in history, the Time Lords are all just a fading memory ... a legend ... a fable told to frighten young Daleks and Cybermen.

It's always struck me that the Time Lords of classic Who were just a little too mundane. With their oh-so-British way of conducting their affairs and the lack of any sense of majesty that emanates from their mastery of time. The exception, of course, was at the end of "War Games", when the Doctor first introduces his people to us. They were much more mysterious and reminded me of some of the super races from Star Trek, like the Metrons or even the Organians. Human-looking, but their technology was so advanced and their grasp of science so far ahead that they performed extraordinary acts with little more than an expression.

In later appearances, they became simpler, easier to understand. They had guards and technicians who sat at consoles. Everything was run with a rigid, boring hierarchy.

In spite of that, I'd like to see Gallifrey return. But when it does, I want to see some of that technomancer mysticism. A sense of technology so advanced these people really are magical. I don't want to see senators and guards, prosecutors and presidents, but something harder to figure out. Something that gives a sense that present-day hierarchies are as much a part of the Gallifrean distant-past as horse-drawn carriages.

Something like the Q Continuum with funny hats and robes all under a big, glass dome.

 

[starsuperion]

all valid points.. however..

the classic series did in fact try to lay a foundation of solid if not hypothetical science behind the fiction of the series, namely the Tardis and the way in which the time lords traverse space and time..

most notably in the end of the Tom Baker era, and the Davidson, C. Baker era.

the fact that the time lords removed from the series means the good ole' Doc has to fend the villainy off alone is not a valid argument in my opinion. The Doc had fought enemies alone anyways due to the Time Lord policy of non interference.

I for one would prefer a scenario in which the time lords came back, and Gallifrey as well, and instead of seeking to rot in perpetual stasis under a policy of stagnation, the newly reforged Gallifrey seeks to operate a clandestine policy of stealing technology and upgrading their own society, and rebirth of the road to scientific superiority, a cold war of tech and espionage, in some cases working the back ground and manipulating time with the doc involved to gain access to technology..or steal it for their own reverse engineering..that would create an antagonistic response to the Doctor, and ignite an arms race of sorts with all manner of beings, like the daleks, and so on.

but bringing gallifrey back also opens the doors to earlier historical events in gallifrey's history, like the death zone when it was active, or the doctor meeting the original Omega pre-black hole exile, and so on..

there is much there that can be explored..

what about the war with the Great vampires, imagine the doctor dropped smack dab in the middle of a space fleet of gallifreyan ships (PRE TARDIS) and forced to help his race defeat a massive gathering of giant vampires and their minion armadas..

so much to add to the universe or story in my view..stuff we have heard of but seldom seen

 

[davejames]

While I agree the "magical, fairy tale Doctor" aspect has come on a bit strong at times in the new series, I have no real desire to see the Doctor return to being just some strange, reclusive vagabond wandering the galaxy in an old, dilapidated time machine, like he often seemed to be in the Classic Series.

Redefining the Doctor as the last of his kind, and making his technology seem a bit more magical and wondrous, has helped a lot in giving the show and character a greater sense of drive and purpose I think.

Plus, frankly.... I just LIKE the idea of the Doctor being regarded as kind of special and amazing (instead of the ho-hum attitude we almost always saw from people before). Because that's what he IS, or at the very least how he should appear to most of the people he encounters.

 

[Starkers]

One cool aspect of the Time War that causes EJA endless distress, and me endless delight is the bizarre, "right-angle to time" flow of the Time Lords' time line. This notion that, no matter where you are in history, the Time Lords are all just a fading memory ... a legend ... a fable told to frighten young Daleks and Cybermen.

It's always struck me that the Time Lords of classic Who were just a little too mundane. With their oh-so-British way of conducting their affairs and the lack of any sense of majesty that emanates from their mastery of time. The exception, of course, was at the end of "War Games", when the Doctor first introduces his people to us. They were much more mysterious and reminded me of some of the super races from Star Trek, like the Metrons or even the Organians. Human-looking, but their technology was so advanced and their grasp of science so far ahead that they performed extraordinary acts with little more than an expression.

In later appearances, they became simpler, easier to understand. They had guards and technicians who sat at consoles. Everything was run with a rigid, boring hierarchy.

In spite of that, I'd like to see Gallifrey return. But when it does, I want to see some of that technomancer mysticism. A sense of technology so advanced these people really are magical. I don't want to see senators and guards, prosecutors and presidents, but something harder to figure out. Something that gives a sense that present-day hierarchies are as much a part of the Gallifrean distant-past as horse-drawn carriages.

Something like the Q Continuum with funny hats and robes all under a big, glass dome.

I think the trouble is if you make the Timelords that impressive, then you have to ask why the Doctor doesn't solve every problem he encounters with little more than an expression. Make the Timelords too godly and all powerful and you have to wonder whether the Doctor was adopted...or maybe half human is classed as not very bright in Timelord Society.

I agree that it would seen foolish to imagine Moffat, who again sees the Doctor as more of a fairytale character, to bring back a hard science element (which was only ever there towards the end of Baker and into Davison and early Colin I believe.)

 

[Admiral_Young]

I always thought that RTD sent them back into the Time War as a back door type thing so that if he ever wanted to bring them Moffat could do so. If RTD could find a way to despite the Time War, I'm sure Steven could as well. Through timey whimey means or otherwise. I loved their appearance in "End of Time".

 

[JoeZhang]

Fuck the timelords - they have one impressive chilling appearance (The Wargames) and it's all been down-hill since then - just a lot of crusty old white dudes hanging around in silly costumes like they are in a nursing home waiting for nurse to come and give them a prostate exam.

 

[JoeZhang]

I for one would prefer a scenario in which the time lords came back, and Gallifrey as well, and instead of seeking to rot in perpetual stasis under a policy of stagnation, the newly reforged Gallifrey seeks to operate a clandestine policy of stealing technology and upgrading their own society, and rebirth of the road to scientific superiority, a cold war of tech and espionage, in some cases working the back ground and manipulating time with the doc involved to gain access to technology..or steal it for their own reverse engineering..that would create an antagonistic response to the Doctor, and ignite an arms race of sorts with all manner of beings, like the daleks, and so on.

Sounds like the sort of stuff that the books were churning out in the 1990s - stories for trainspotters not a show for family viewing on a Saturday night.

All aboard - next stop cancellation!

 

[starsuperion]

I for one would prefer a scenario in which the time lords came back, and Gallifrey as well, and instead of seeking to rot in perpetual stasis under a policy of stagnation, the newly reforged Gallifrey seeks to operate a clandestine policy of stealing technology and upgrading their own society, and rebirth of the road to scientific superiority, a cold war of tech and espionage, in some cases working the back ground and manipulating time with the doc involved to gain access to technology..or steal it for their own reverse engineering..that would create an antagonistic response to the Doctor, and ignite an arms race of sorts with all manner of beings, like the daleks, and so on.

Sounds like the sort of stuff that the books were churning out in the 1990s - stories for trainspotters not a show for family viewing on a Saturday night.

All aboard - next stop cancellation!

I disagree with that.. there are much more provocative subject matter on the Tele then the time lords engaging in an arms race, stealing technology, and mucking about with time like in their olden days or their wanting to regain an imperial status..

it wouldn't have to be outright.. more like a seeping in of the plot line with it culminating in a big finale involving the doctor and the shaping of a new gallifrey..

Moffat could always bring back the time lords without all the time war stuff.. like the JJ Abrams Star Trek, a new time line is forged..the RTD Rassilon stuff is left in it's own pocket alternate reality.. with only the doc remembering how evil they once were during war..


besides.. I don't think that stories involving the Time Lords and Gallifrey is a ratings killer.. anyone know what the take was in the end of time special??

 

[JoeZhang]

I don't think that stories involving the Time Lords and Gallifrey is a ratings killer.. anyone know what the take was in the end of time special??

That was the final Tenth Doctor Story so you can't separate that out from the ratings, he could have been fighting potatoes from Mars and the ratings would have been good.

there are much more provocative subject matter on the Tele

At 6pm on a Saturday night and are of interest to an 8 year old?

 

[Thestral]

Also, Time Lords stealing tech? Pretty sure that undermines one of their defining things - they are THE most advanced surviving people. I may be mistaken, but I always got the sense the Daleks were only a match for the Time Lords because they could throw waves of bodies against the Time Lords.

 

[Psion]

One cool aspect of the Time War that causes EJA endless distress, and me endless delight is the bizarre, "right-angle to time" flow of the Time Lords' time line. This notion that, no matter where you are in history, the Time Lords are all just a fading memory ... a legend ... a fable told to frighten young Daleks and Cybermen.

It's always struck me that the Time Lords of classic Who were just a little too mundane. With their oh-so-British way of conducting their affairs and the lack of any sense of majesty that emanates from their mastery of time. The exception, of course, was at the end of "War Games", when the Doctor first introduces his people to us. They were much more mysterious and reminded me of some of the super races from Star Trek, like the Metrons or even the Organians. Human-looking, but their technology was so advanced and their grasp of science so far ahead that they performed extraordinary acts with little more than an expression.

In later appearances, they became simpler, easier to understand. They had guards and technicians who sat at consoles. Everything was run with a rigid, boring hierarchy.

In spite of that, I'd like to see Gallifrey return. But when it does, I want to see some of that technomancer mysticism. A sense of technology so advanced these people really are magical. I don't want to see senators and guards, prosecutors and presidents, but something harder to figure out. Something that gives a sense that present-day hierarchies are as much a part of the Gallifrean distant-past as horse-drawn carriages.

Something like the Q Continuum with funny hats and robes all under a big, glass dome.

I think the trouble is if you make the Timelords that impressive, then you have to ask why the Doctor doesn't solve every problem he encounters with little more than an expression. Make the Timelords too godly and all powerful and you have to wonder whether the Doctor was adopted...or maybe half human is classed as not very bright in Timelord Society.

Not necessarily. The Doctor does open his TARDIS door with a snap of his finger, doesn't he? And that's old technology for the Timelords. I'm not suggesting they should be painted as Q-like in terms of omnipotence, so much as a mysterious culture which is best portrayed by metaphor. Fantastically advanced scientifically and technologically, whose only similarities with human trappings of power are purely iconic.

This then allows one to integrate everything we've seen before of Timelords into a package that explains their depiction as symbolic. Those seen in "The Wargames" were the most accurate.

I'd also suggest that the Doctor doesn't have the same abilities because he left Gallifreyan civilization behind. He no longer has access to the group-mind of the Matrix or the shared support of millions of Timelords. He's on his own and gets by on his own wits and experience instead of the support of Timelord culture.

Alternatively, let them be more human-like. But then it's time to introduce a real civilization that is hundreds of thousands of years more advanced than ours. One that looks down on the squabbles of the Timelords and Daleks with amusement ... or pity.