News Brent Spiner Returned for "Picard" (and you could do the CGI better in 15 minutes, we get it)

[fireproof78]

There is also a huge impossibility of keeping Spiner in the role.

I understood your point perfectly: you are so enamoured of Data that you'd accept any character going by that name even if that character had nothing of the voice, body language, mannerisms or behavioural traits that Brent Spiner brought to the role. If Data were played by a plush doll and voiced by Melissa Rauch, you'd take it.

That's a strawman too.

I would be curious to know Spiner's opinion on the matter, if he would want Data to be able to continue forward via holographic or transfer means. His character is quite unique in that possibility so I would be curious if he had considered other options too for carrying forward the character.

For me though, I am not the type of person who think only one person can play one character. You can have defining actors in roles, but to say that once an actor is lost then the character must also be lost is really missing the point of characters, in my opinion.

 

[Yistaan]

you are so enamoured of Data that you'd accept any character going by that name even if that character had nothing of the voice, body language, mannerisms or behavioural traits that Brent Spiner brought to the role. If Data were played by a plush doll and voiced by Melissa Rauch, you'd take it.

This is very insulting and inappropriate language to be used. And very much venturing into personal attacks in the sarcastic bizarre suggestions about what I'd "accept".

Reported.

 

[Turtletrekker]

For me though, I am not the type of person who think only one person can play one character. You can have defining actors in roles, but to say that once an actor is lost then the character must also be lost is really missing the point of characters, in my opinion.

Agreed. I'm on my third Spock, so I would have no problem with recasting Data sometime down the line. However, it would be odd at first to see someone else performing the character on the same screen as Stewart, Frakes and the rest, but I think I would adjust quickly enough.

And as long as the TNG cast is all available and willing to reprise their roles, I will be 100% game to continue watching them. However, if some years down the line TPTB decide to relaunch Picard and crew Abrams style, I won't have a problem with it.

 

[Yistaan]

Agreed. I'm on my third Spock, so I would have no problem with recasting Data sometime down the line. However, it would be odd at first to see someone else performing the character on the same screen as Stewart, Frakes and the rest, but I think I would adjust quickly enough.

No more jarring than seeing Leonard Nimoy interact with Chris Pine and Simon Pegg like they were his old friends Kirk and Scotty in the 2009 film. The audience accepted it.

 

[ireactions]

This is very insulting and inappropriate language to be used. And very much venturing into personal attacks in the sarcastic bizarre suggestions about what I'd "accept".

Reported.

Oooooh, I’m soooooooooooo scared.

I don’t really see Quinto and Peck as replacing Nimoy; they’re playing him at a different stage of his life from when Nimoy played Spock. I don’t know that such a thing exists for Data. He sprang into existence, both in a fictional and real-world context, as Brent Spiner.

Nimoy was interacting with a younger Kirk and Scotty played by Pine and Pegg, so that time gap made it work for me.

Regardless on where we stand on recasting Data, it isn’t going to happen for awhile as Brent Spiner is still playing him with computer deaging.

 

[fireproof78]

He sprang into existence, both in a fictional and real-world context, as Brent Spiner.

So did Spock from Nimoy. That didn't change Nimoy's mind from giving his blessing to a new actor taking on the ears, as it were.

 

[ireactions]

So did Spock from Nimoy. That didn't change Nimoy's mind from giving his blessing to a new actor taking on the ears, as it were.

When Data was switched on in Soong’s lab, he was Brent Spiner. Data has always been Brent Spiner. In contrast, even if we never saw an infant or teen Spock, he was a child at some point. And it was also safe to think that there was a process to Spock becoming the mysterious, scientific observer and analyst he was in TOS. There was a path to becoming Nimoy.

I don’t see how you could cast pre teen and teen actors to play Data, aging program or no aging program.

 

[Longinus]

So did Spock from Nimoy. That didn't change Nimoy's mind from giving his blessing to a new actor taking on the ears, as it were.

Yet that recasting was not a good idea either.

Just create new characters if the old actors are not available. You said that some people want the Star Trek to be static. This is true. It is the people who want to keep repeating the old characters with new actors who want it to remain static. If Roddenberry had thought like this, we would have never had Data in the first place.

 

[Yistaan]

Yet that recasting was not a good idea either.

Just create new characters if the old actors are not available. You said that some people want the Star Trek to be static. This is true. It is the people who want to keep repeating the old characters with new actors who want it to remain static. If Roddenberry had thought like this, we would have never had Data in the first place.

By Data's very nature as a theoretically immortal android, the examples of other characters don't apply to him really.

The flip side to your argument is that using that logic would mean Dr. Who would have died a quick death instead of becoming a multidecade franchise.

 

[Jedman67]

When Data was switched on in Soong’s lab, he was Brent Spiner. Data has always been Brent Spiner. In contrast, even if we never saw an infant or teen Spock, he was a child at some point. And it was also safe to think that there was a process to Spock becoming the mysterious, scientific observer and analyst he was in TOS. There was a path to becoming Nimoy.

I don’t see how you could cast pre teen and teen actors to play Data, aging program or no aging program.

Data has never been Brent Spiner; Data has always been a fictional character, played by a human character.
Of course Spiner has always been associated with the role; it's inevitable after 7 seasons and 4 movies that a singular actor has come to be associated as defining the role. However, and this is the biggy, the actor does not want to be known "only" as the popular character he played on television. He's had other roles, other jobs and wants to be known as a good actor, not simply the single most famous role he's played.
So yes, he certainly could be recast.

 

[ireactions]

By Data's very nature as a theoretically immortal android, the examples of other characters don't apply to him really.

The flip side to your argument is that using that logic would mean Dr. Who would have died a quick death instead of becoming a multidecade franchise.

I find it truly insulting and reductive to compare Data to the Doctor. I'm not sure who it's insulting, Data or the Doctor, but I am so insecure and terrified by someone having a different opinion that I shall threaten to report them if I ever find the report button, wherever it may be. I shall belittle them. I shall antagonize them, mis-represent their posts. I shall try to intimidate them by calling in the authorities. :-D

I don't think comparing Data to other characters is even meaningful; Data is truly unique, strongly identified with a specific actor to the point of computer generated deaging being used to reproduce him, and this character is not like the Doctor and Spock and Kirk and Scotty and Sherlock Holmes. The artificiality of Data and Brent Spiner's importance in conveying that artificiality makes the challenges of recasting him, should that even be wise, very distinct from past recastings.

In any case, Data is not going to be recast for the next couple years so I won't even give the question of recasting the role any further thought until it actually happens. Others may prefer to do otherwise and I wouldn't stop them; I'm not the final arbiter of taste and I wouldn't want to be.

 

[ireactions]

When Data was switched on in Soong’s lab, he was Brent Spiner. Data has always been Brent Spiner. In contrast, even if we never saw an infant or teen Spock, he was a child at some point. And it was also safe to think that there was a process to Spock becoming the mysterious, scientific observer and analyst he was in TOS. There was a path to becoming Nimoy.

I don’t see how you could cast pre teen and teen actors to play Data, aging program or no aging program.

Data has never been Brent Spiner; Data has always been a fictional character, played by a human character.
Of course Spiner has always been associated with the role; it's inevitable after 7 seasons and 4 movies that a singular actor has come to be associated as defining the role. However, and this is the biggy, the actor does not want to be known "only" as the popular character he played on television. He's had other roles, other jobs and wants to be known as a good actor, not simply the single most famous role he's played.
So yes, he certainly could be recast.

I have to point out that you are using a vagary of phrasing to blatantly misrepresent my views. My meaning was plain: within the fictional context of Data's life, when he was first activated by Dr. Soong, he looked like Brent Spiner. The first few seasons of the show are clear that Data doesn't age; that he's always looked how he does in the present as highlighted by Lore, switched off in a lab, looking exactly the same. Data, at every point of his existence, had the likeness of Brent Spiner.

I think you are fully aware that this was my argument and seized upon a lack of specificity in my post to claim I can't tell the difference between a fictional character and an actor via an absurd and petty distinction of wording. And I have to say, I kind of like that.

I am impressed that you can pick apart someone with whom you don't agree or don't like based on an unintended implication of their choices in words. It's shallow and small-minded yet effectively diversionary and I admire that. The rhetorical technique you have displayed is a marvel and I could learn a lot from you. Please accept my compliments and know I shall follow your posts with interest. I may not respond, but you have my appreciation.

 

[fireproof78]

I don’t see how you could cast pre teen and teen actors to play Data, aging program or no aging program.

Agree to disagree, since, honestly, this discussion is going no where.

Suffice to say that I do not agree that one actor should define a character for forever. Even one as iconic as Data or Spock.

Yet that recasting was not a good idea either.

Agree to disagree.

This is true. It is the people who want to keep repeating the old characters with new actors who want it to remain static.

Largely because the audience keeps telling them that's what they want.

 

[Longinus]

Largely because the audience keeps telling them that's what they want.

I didn't!

 

[fireproof78]

I didn't!

Put it down, one no.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I understood your point perfectly: you are so enamoured of Data that you'd accept any character going by that name even if that character had nothing of the voice, body language, mannerisms or behavioural traits that Brent Spiner brought to the role. If Data were played by a plush doll and voiced by Melissa Rauch, you'd take it.

I don't think this quite rises to the level of being actionable, but it's needlessly personal. Less "you" and more "your argument"...the post, not the poster.

Oooooh, I’m soooooooooooo scared.

Now this isn't just mocking the person who reported you...it's also mocking me.

I find it truly insulting and reductive to compare Data to the Doctor. I'm not sure who it's insulting, Data or the Doctor, but I am so insecure and terrified by someone having a different opinion that I shall threaten to report them if I ever find the report button, wherever it may be. I shall belittle them. I shall antagonize them, mis-represent their posts. I shall try to intimidate them by calling in the authorities. :-D

This could be considered Trolling, which is actionable.

It's shallow and small-minded yet effectively diversionary and I admire that.

And this crosses the line of insulting a poster via their post.

I'm going to let all of this go with a friendly, but if you don't want to start collecting formal Warnings, I'd advise dialing back the attitude and not getting so personal.

 

[Jedman67]

I have to point out that you are using a vagary of phrasing to blatantly misrepresent my views. My meaning was plain: within the fictional context of Data's life, when he was first activated by Dr. Soong, he looked like Brent Spiner. The first few seasons of the show are clear that Data doesn't age; that he's always looked how he does in the present as highlighted by Lore, switched off in a lab, looking exactly the same. Data, at every point of his existence, had the likeness of Brent Spiner.

I think you are fully aware that this was my argument and seized upon a lack of specificity in my post to claim I can't tell the difference between a fictional character and an actor via an absurd and petty distinction of wording. And I have to say, I kind of like that.

I am impressed that you can pick apart someone with whom you don't agree or don't like based on an unintended implication of their choices in words. It's shallow and small-minded yet effectively diversionary and I admire that. The rhetorical technique you have displayed is a marvel and I could learn a lot from you. Please accept my compliments and know I shall follow your posts with interest. I may not respond, but you have my appreciation.

I apologize, my initial reading of your post suggested that you felt a bit more rigidly about Spiner = Data. I guess I misread your tone.
So to recap my previous comment, yes, Spiner has always been associated with Data as both the actual actor and his likeness being used for the Data/Lore/B4 props. All that is said and done, I have no objection to recasting Data if it serves the show better. I'd prefer Spiner, but as he's 70 now, I'd hardly expect him to be able to pull it off the same way. Of course, makeup and CGI can be used to de-age him, but then you get to the uncanny valley.

I was not terribly thrilled with how they brought Peter Cushing back to life in Rogue One. Sure, it was nice to see Tarkin, but I think it would have worked better to completely replace him with a new actor than to CGI him.
To each their own, eh?

 

[ireactions]

I apologize, my initial reading of your post suggested that you felt a bit more rigidly about Spiner = Data. I guess I misread your tone.
So to recap my previous comment, yes, Spiner has always been associated with Data as both the actual actor and his likeness being used for the Data/Lore/B4 props. All that is said and done, I have no objection to recasting Data if it serves the show better. I'd prefer Spiner, but as he's 70 now, I'd hardly expect him to be able to pull it off the same way. Of course, makeup and CGI can be used to de-age him, but then you get to the uncanny valley.

I was not terribly thrilled with how they brought Peter Cushing back to life in Rogue One. Sure, it was nice to see Tarkin, but I think it would have worked better to completely replace him with a new actor than to CGI him.
To each their own, eh?

I’m sorry too. I should have considered that your reading of my words was entirely sincere, assumed positive intent and addressed you so.

I think the CG Cushing was WEIRD and artificial and inhuman and distracting... but I wouldn’t mind a CG Data looking weird and artificial and inhuman and it wouldn’t be distracting. It would fit because Data is artificial. It would serve the character.

 

[Jedman67]

I’m sorry too. I should have considered that your reading of my words was entirely sincere, assumed positive intent and addressed you so.

I think the CG Cushing was WEIRD and artificial and inhuman and distracting... but I wouldn’t mind a CG Data looking weird and artificial and inhuman and it wouldn’t be distracting. It would fit because Data is artificial. It would serve the character.

That's not a bad point; but I think the appeal with Data is that he was "almost" human. That if you make him too artificial it can become distracting. I guess we"ll just have to wait and see.

 

[fireproof78]

That's not a bad point; but I think the appeal with Data is that he was "almost" human. That if you make him too artificial it can become distracting. I guess we"ll just have to wait and see.

That's my feeling too. Data has a goal of becoming more human, so making him more artificial seems odd to me, and counter to his character goal.