Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajorans
- Thread starter John200
- Start date
Withers
Captain
Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
Well... let's see here, what exactly was it the Federation gave to Bajor that they should be so thankful for?
The Federation didn't drive off the Cardassians. The Bajorans did. Once they were gone The Federation agreed to help in reconstruction and give a minimal amount of protection (3 runabouts... what does that say about how important the Bajorans were to the Federation?)
But let's move even further along in the time; The Dominion War starts and The Emissary says sign the Non-Aggression Pact with the enemy because there's no way in hell the Federation is going to protect Bajor.
Keep going... The Romulans show up and put weapons on a Bajoran moon. It takes the Colonel nearly sacrificing her life and the release of Prophet back into the Wormhole before the Federation takes the Bajoran side over the Romulan.
We have the Federation constantly referring to their Gods as "worm hole aliens" in a manner that was, at times, straight out insensitive. That only added to the idea of another Godless oppressor moving in in place of the Cardassians.
But what did the Federation get from Bajor? Well first of all the Wormhole (one of the greatest scientific discoveries in galactic history), Militia reports on the Cardassians (that happened quite a bit in the first few seasons), and of course Deep Space Nine (which of course became valuable after the Federation fixed it.)
Considering everything Bajor had gone through and the obvious cultural differences that existed between Bajorans and the general population of the Federation, I'd say the way things went was pretty smooth by comparison to how it could have gone. DS9 had enough moments that made SFC seem like a bunch of out of touch d-bags without adding "Behave like we want you to or you can't be a part of our club Bajor" as one of them.
Well... let's see here, what exactly was it the Federation gave to Bajor that they should be so thankful for?
The Federation didn't drive off the Cardassians. The Bajorans did. Once they were gone The Federation agreed to help in reconstruction and give a minimal amount of protection (3 runabouts... what does that say about how important the Bajorans were to the Federation?)
But let's move even further along in the time; The Dominion War starts and The Emissary says sign the Non-Aggression Pact with the enemy because there's no way in hell the Federation is going to protect Bajor.
Keep going... The Romulans show up and put weapons on a Bajoran moon. It takes the Colonel nearly sacrificing her life and the release of Prophet back into the Wormhole before the Federation takes the Bajoran side over the Romulan.
We have the Federation constantly referring to their Gods as "worm hole aliens" in a manner that was, at times, straight out insensitive. That only added to the idea of another Godless oppressor moving in in place of the Cardassians.
But what did the Federation get from Bajor? Well first of all the Wormhole (one of the greatest scientific discoveries in galactic history), Militia reports on the Cardassians (that happened quite a bit in the first few seasons), and of course Deep Space Nine (which of course became valuable after the Federation fixed it.)
Considering everything Bajor had gone through and the obvious cultural differences that existed between Bajorans and the general population of the Federation, I'd say the way things went was pretty smooth by comparison to how it could have gone. DS9 had enough moments that made SFC seem like a bunch of out of touch d-bags without adding "Behave like we want you to or you can't be a part of our club Bajor" as one of them.
-Withers-
Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
It doesn't matter to the Federation if Bajor wanted them there, because the Federation's agenda was to serve its own purpose, not Bajor's.
Picard tells the Sisko in Emissary that it is the Sisko's job to coerce Bajor into joining the Federation whether it wants to or not, in other words, mandatory assimiliation without making it clear to Bajor that that is the agenda. Picard proves that Eddington's comments about the Federation being worse than the Borg are 100% spot-on.
It doesn't matter to the Federation if Bajor wanted them there, because the Federation's agenda was to serve its own purpose, not Bajor's.
Picard tells the Sisko in Emissary that it is the Sisko's job to coerce Bajor into joining the Federation whether it wants to or not, in other words, mandatory assimiliation without making it clear to Bajor that that is the agenda. Picard proves that Eddington's comments about the Federation being worse than the Borg are 100% spot-on.
Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
Just because a few high profile people decried the Federation's presence doesn't mean that it was a majority view. Remember that pro-Federation types like Bariel and Shakaar were more popular than Winn amongst the Bajoran populace.
If a few bad eggs in Haiti demand that foreign aid workers leave, does that mean we should abandon the majority that want us there?
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY[/yt]
Just because a few high profile people decried the Federation's presence doesn't mean that it was a majority view. Remember that pro-Federation types like Bariel and Shakaar were more popular than Winn amongst the Bajoran populace.
If a few bad eggs in Haiti demand that foreign aid workers leave, does that mean we should abandon the majority that want us there?
This doesn't deserve a serious rebuttal, so I'll just let Dr. Cox handle this:
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY[/yt]
Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
If the Federation did that, Bajor could let them go as then Bajor would then control the wormhole. UFP wouldn't leave so easily when it currently controls the passageway into a whole new part of space.
If the Federation did that, Bajor could let them go as then Bajor would then control the wormhole. UFP wouldn't leave so easily when it currently controls the passageway into a whole new part of space.
Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
Bajor needed the Federation far more than the UFP needed Bajor. Think of it. When Sisko first went to DS9 to be its CO, Bajor was a backwater planet near the Cardassian Union, recovering from a brutal occupation, and was of no strategic value to the Federation.
The only reason the Federation valued Bajor so much, at least after the wormhole's discovery, was due to the wormhole. Sisko said himself that whoever controls the wormhole controls the Alpha Quadrant. If this meant not letting the Cardassians control it, or later the Dominion, or even the Klingons (which could have happened should the attack in Way of the Warrior led to a Federation defeat), then so be it.
The way I see it is this. The Federation is kind of like the USA of the Alpha Quadrant. Whilst there are other quite powerful entities such as the Klingons, Romulans and pre-Obsidian Order fall Cardassians, the UFP is perhaps the top dog in many areas. In real life, the USA does not go about protecting other countries if there is no interest to itself. Iraq was not invaded solely due to benevolence, and Saddam being a bad man.
The same scenario is true with Bajor. if the wormhole was never discovered, Bajor and DS9 would have been of little importance to Starfleet command in its decision-making.
Bajor needed the Federation far more than the UFP needed Bajor. Think of it. When Sisko first went to DS9 to be its CO, Bajor was a backwater planet near the Cardassian Union, recovering from a brutal occupation, and was of no strategic value to the Federation.
The only reason the Federation valued Bajor so much, at least after the wormhole's discovery, was due to the wormhole. Sisko said himself that whoever controls the wormhole controls the Alpha Quadrant. If this meant not letting the Cardassians control it, or later the Dominion, or even the Klingons (which could have happened should the attack in Way of the Warrior led to a Federation defeat), then so be it.
The way I see it is this. The Federation is kind of like the USA of the Alpha Quadrant. Whilst there are other quite powerful entities such as the Klingons, Romulans and pre-Obsidian Order fall Cardassians, the UFP is perhaps the top dog in many areas. In real life, the USA does not go about protecting other countries if there is no interest to itself. Iraq was not invaded solely due to benevolence, and Saddam being a bad man.
The same scenario is true with Bajor. if the wormhole was never discovered, Bajor and DS9 would have been of little importance to Starfleet command in its decision-making.
Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
Which is why the title of this thread and the opening post are so hilarious. Basically it says, wasn't Federation such a saint for sticking with Bajor, only because it served the Federation's interests, even though the Bajorans stretched their patience by not getting down on their knees and worshipping the Federation!
Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
Actually, the Federation established a presence on DS9 and provided support to Bajor and provisional government because they knew the Cardassians would likely be back relatively quickly to take back DS9 and resume the occupation.
Rather to force a conflict with the Cardies, the Feds waited until the Bajorans forced them out, and established a presence for protection purposes.
It was established so in TNG after all, because doing anything else while the Cardies were still on Bajor would be detrimental to the treaty between the Feds and Cardies.
Picard made it clear to Sisko it's important the Bajorans join the Federation, but coercion was not one of the factors.
They offered humanitarian aid in the first place because that's what they usually do (and I suspect that Picard pushed the Federation to do it because he had an emotional attachment to Bajorans ... which was very evident), and in the long run, it would give the Federation a chance to establish a firmer foothold when dealing with the Cardassians because they could have also extended their borders to Cardassia's.
Bajor would have been probably quite frankly unable to recover as fast as it did without the Federations help, and the Cardies would have returned within about 2 weeks time as Kira mentioned to Sisko originally in a hypothetical scenario (which never came true).
It wasn't until later that the Bajoran sector became a more prominent one.
I also have to agree with the fact that some Bajorans were in fact quite ungrateful for the Federations presence.
I can understand how it may seem to some as if one superpower was replaced with another, but the Federation is NOTHING like Cardassia and they gave Bajor a chance to recover at a much faster rate and it's populace to resume with their lives without living under oppression.
I'm not saying they should be worshipping the Feds, nor do the Feds have any right asking it (and to my knowledge, they did not), but at the same time, they were behaving like pricks at times.
Actually, the Federation established a presence on DS9 and provided support to Bajor and provisional government because they knew the Cardassians would likely be back relatively quickly to take back DS9 and resume the occupation.
Rather to force a conflict with the Cardies, the Feds waited until the Bajorans forced them out, and established a presence for protection purposes.
It was established so in TNG after all, because doing anything else while the Cardies were still on Bajor would be detrimental to the treaty between the Feds and Cardies.
Picard made it clear to Sisko it's important the Bajorans join the Federation, but coercion was not one of the factors.
They offered humanitarian aid in the first place because that's what they usually do (and I suspect that Picard pushed the Federation to do it because he had an emotional attachment to Bajorans ... which was very evident), and in the long run, it would give the Federation a chance to establish a firmer foothold when dealing with the Cardassians because they could have also extended their borders to Cardassia's.
Bajor would have been probably quite frankly unable to recover as fast as it did without the Federations help, and the Cardies would have returned within about 2 weeks time as Kira mentioned to Sisko originally in a hypothetical scenario (which never came true).
It wasn't until later that the Bajoran sector became a more prominent one.
I also have to agree with the fact that some Bajorans were in fact quite ungrateful for the Federations presence.
I can understand how it may seem to some as if one superpower was replaced with another, but the Federation is NOTHING like Cardassia and they gave Bajor a chance to recover at a much faster rate and it's populace to resume with their lives without living under oppression.
I'm not saying they should be worshipping the Feds, nor do the Feds have any right asking it (and to my knowledge, they did not), but at the same time, they were behaving like pricks at times.
Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
The Bajorans represent those poorer countries that love all the aid ,and money you can give them but hate you all the same with your evil heathen ways.
Their lucky they didn't get the Klingons.
The Bajorans represent those poorer countries that love all the aid ,and money you can give them but hate you all the same with your evil heathen ways.
Their lucky they didn't get the Klingons.
Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
This is the way I see it.
Bajor got a lot of out of the Federation. It recovered much faster than it would have otherwise. It was spared a second Cardassian Occupation. It got to be a powerful player in Alpha Quadrant politics.
However, the Federation also got a lot out of Bajor. They got a newly strengthened foothold against the Cardassians. They got access to, and virtual control of, the Wormhole.
That's not to say that the relationship was smooth sailing at all times. Both sides were ungrateful toward the other. Many Bajorans were unhappy with the UFP's presense and took steps to rid themselves of the Federation. The Federation, conversely, at times was very condenscing to the Bajorans, as Withers pointed out.
So, in the end, I'd have to say that both the UFP and Bajor showed a great deal of patience toward each other.
This is the way I see it.
Bajor got a lot of out of the Federation. It recovered much faster than it would have otherwise. It was spared a second Cardassian Occupation. It got to be a powerful player in Alpha Quadrant politics.
However, the Federation also got a lot out of Bajor. They got a newly strengthened foothold against the Cardassians. They got access to, and virtual control of, the Wormhole.
That's not to say that the relationship was smooth sailing at all times. Both sides were ungrateful toward the other. Many Bajorans were unhappy with the UFP's presense and took steps to rid themselves of the Federation. The Federation, conversely, at times was very condenscing to the Bajorans, as Withers pointed out.
So, in the end, I'd have to say that both the UFP and Bajor showed a great deal of patience toward each other.
Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
It always seemed a bit one-way to me, the relationship between the Federation and Bajor. The Federation got a pretty good end of the deal, namely the wormhole, which is of supreme strategic importance. Sure, if the Feds left, the Cardies would be back to claim DS9, the wormhole, and Bajor. But aside from (limited) protection and rebuilding assistance, what did Bajor really get?
It always seemed a bit one-way to me, the relationship between the Federation and Bajor. The Federation got a pretty good end of the deal, namely the wormhole, which is of supreme strategic importance. Sure, if the Feds left, the Cardies would be back to claim DS9, the wormhole, and Bajor. But aside from (limited) protection and rebuilding assistance, what did Bajor really get?
Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
Protection & rebuilding assistance is pretty big. To me that is like saying... besides a billion dollars, what did I really get.
As already said, there was a fair bit of giving and taking on both sides. The relationship worked incredibly well.
Protection & rebuilding assistance is pretty big. To me that is like saying... besides a billion dollars, what did I really get.
As already said, there was a fair bit of giving and taking on both sides. The relationship worked incredibly well.
Withers
Captain
Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
That's my beef with the idea that the Bajorans took the Federation for a ride somehow. The one time it really mattered the Federation made absolutely no honest effort to protect Bajor. Ben asked Starfleet to send reinforcements and Starfleet said "No, we're... not even going to send the six ships we sent during the Klingon attack because we're sending all available resources to blow up the shipyards." I find it somewhat dubious that there weren't any other ships that could've been sent to defend the station (and thus Bajor) since six months later they had to go back and re-take it anyway.
The "protection" Bajor received wouldn't have been enough for me to bow down and kiss anyone's boots in gratitude, that's for sure.
That's my beef with the idea that the Bajorans took the Federation for a ride somehow. The one time it really mattered the Federation made absolutely no honest effort to protect Bajor. Ben asked Starfleet to send reinforcements and Starfleet said "No, we're... not even going to send the six ships we sent during the Klingon attack because we're sending all available resources to blow up the shipyards." I find it somewhat dubious that there weren't any other ships that could've been sent to defend the station (and thus Bajor) since six months later they had to go back and re-take it anyway.
The "protection" Bajor received wouldn't have been enough for me to bow down and kiss anyone's boots in gratitude, that's for sure.
-Withers-
Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
Bajor is located next to the only known stable wormhole. The Federation wants to claim it as their own so they do anything under the guise of "protecting" or "rebuilding" Bajor in order to maintain a presence in the region and stake a pseudo claim. The ultimate goal is to have Bajor become a Federation member world so that they can legitimize their claim. I am not surprised that they tended to be patient and lenient with the Bajorans in order to achieve this goal.
Bajor is located next to the only known stable wormhole. The Federation wants to claim it as their own so they do anything under the guise of "protecting" or "rebuilding" Bajor in order to maintain a presence in the region and stake a pseudo claim. The ultimate goal is to have Bajor become a Federation member world so that they can legitimize their claim. I am not surprised that they tended to be patient and lenient with the Bajorans in order to achieve this goal.
Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
To be fair, the Federation was already there assisting Bajor before the Wormhole's discovery.
The lack of Starfleet ships there was because the last thing Bajorans wanted was a foreign power moving in with an armada days after Cardassia had been driven out. We know from the season 7 opener that Bajor had a fleet of ships for basic defense and interdiction, and we know from "Way of the Warrior" that the Federation was capable of deploying a fleet to Bajor at short notice.
As for rebuilding Bajor: Look at the country of Iraq after seven years. Look at the PLANET Bajor after seven years.
With the help of the Federation and the added commerce from the Wormhole, Bajor was rebuilt from a broken shell back into a vibrant world in a few short years. WORLD. Not city. Not country. An entire PLANET with BILLIONS of citizens. Pretty fucking impressive if you ask me.
To be fair, the Federation was already there assisting Bajor before the Wormhole's discovery.
The lack of Starfleet ships there was because the last thing Bajorans wanted was a foreign power moving in with an armada days after Cardassia had been driven out. We know from the season 7 opener that Bajor had a fleet of ships for basic defense and interdiction, and we know from "Way of the Warrior" that the Federation was capable of deploying a fleet to Bajor at short notice.
As for rebuilding Bajor: Look at the country of Iraq after seven years. Look at the PLANET Bajor after seven years.
With the help of the Federation and the added commerce from the Wormhole, Bajor was rebuilt from a broken shell back into a vibrant world in a few short years. WORLD. Not city. Not country. An entire PLANET with BILLIONS of citizens. Pretty fucking impressive if you ask me.
Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
Technically Bajor didn't need defending it had a non-aggression pact with the Dominion so it was relatively safe from invasion.
Technically Bajor didn't need defending it had a non-aggression pact with the Dominion so it was relatively safe from invasion.
Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
1: I've always been suspicious of the idea that it was the Bajoran resistance only who drove off the Cardassians. Outside factors did help as well.
From memory alpha
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Occupation_of_Bajor
After fifty years of occupation, the Cardassians withdrew from Bajor, but only under political pressure from the United Federation of Planets and other entities. However, the exact cause of the withdrawal is largely a matter of opinion; while the Bajorans attributed it to the efforts of the Bajoran Resistance, the Cardassians regarded it as an entirely political decision. (DS9: "Duet") Regardless of the cause, all sides acknowledge that civilian leaders such as those on the Detapa Council made the decision, which was opposed by the Cardassian military. Gul Dukat in particular remained intent on reconquering Bajor for over five years. (DS9: "Cardassians", "Call to Arms").
2: I would consider the discovery of the Wormhole to be a gain for Bajor and a HUGE net loss for the rest of the Alpha Quadrant. Doubtless Bajor charged a fee for the use of the wormhole as it was their celestrial temple after all. That would have aided in reconstruction efforts. But stack that against everyone killed by the Dominion war? In hindsight the wormhole should have been mined/collpased the instant it was discovered. All arguments to the fact that Bajor should have been more protected in seasons 5 unwards, run into the wall that the Federation has only so many ships and that there are other worlds to protect.
In fact I can imagine in the DS9 future, some people from such conquered planets as Betazid thinking why exactly SHOULD they like the Bajoran's? After all it was from their celestial temple that the Dominion came through. And their prophets did nothing (until Sacrifice of Angels)
3: The argument that the Federation didn't do enough to guard the Bajoran sector before the war is moot when you see Way of the Warrior. Where did all that retro-fitting come from? Certainly not the Bajorans. And I presume it takes a while for that to be planned and designed, in the meantime they assigned the Defiant to the station.
Yes Starfleet only assigned 3 runabouts at the start of the show. But to be brutally honest, in seasons 1 and 2, Bajor was not a strategic sector. The wormhole was a scientific discovery, not a military one. The Federation does not have infinite resources. Why should it spare them to guard a non-Federation world? Especially a world that takes pains to say that its an independent planet.
4: "Wormhole Aliens" or "Gods"? Who cares? Its just a name.
Live and let live. Yes the Federation could be more sensitive I guess, but the Bajorans are leaving their world and travelling the wider galaxy now. They must realise that not everyone shares their beliefs. Meeting a few non-Bajorans on the station who don't, should not be a shock.
5: As regards the Romulan issue, well the Romulans were a major power fighting against an enemy who came through the Bajoran's celestial temple. They supplied more resources to the Dominion War effort than the Bajoran's did. It was a no-brainer. Yes the Romulans should not have put weapons on the moon and when the war was over the Federation would doubtless have done something about it. But not during the war. Not when Federation worlds were being invaded by the Dominion and they needed help.
My opinion is that the Bajoran's were only really prickely at the start of the show. And its understandable, the Cardassians have just left and they see more foreigners arriving. After that, they see that the Federation is different and their animosity fades. Plus the Bajoran's have relaxed a bit. I didn't see much butting of heads after season 3. Although thats probably due to the Dominion storyline. But everything is fine.
However as mentioned, I see plenty of reasons for individual Federation worlds that were conquered by the Dominion to not feel so disposed to the Bajorans after the war. It was their wormhole after all.
1: I've always been suspicious of the idea that it was the Bajoran resistance only who drove off the Cardassians. Outside factors did help as well.
From memory alpha
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Occupation_of_Bajor
After fifty years of occupation, the Cardassians withdrew from Bajor, but only under political pressure from the United Federation of Planets and other entities. However, the exact cause of the withdrawal is largely a matter of opinion; while the Bajorans attributed it to the efforts of the Bajoran Resistance, the Cardassians regarded it as an entirely political decision. (DS9: "Duet") Regardless of the cause, all sides acknowledge that civilian leaders such as those on the Detapa Council made the decision, which was opposed by the Cardassian military. Gul Dukat in particular remained intent on reconquering Bajor for over five years. (DS9: "Cardassians", "Call to Arms").
2: I would consider the discovery of the Wormhole to be a gain for Bajor and a HUGE net loss for the rest of the Alpha Quadrant. Doubtless Bajor charged a fee for the use of the wormhole as it was their celestrial temple after all. That would have aided in reconstruction efforts. But stack that against everyone killed by the Dominion war? In hindsight the wormhole should have been mined/collpased the instant it was discovered. All arguments to the fact that Bajor should have been more protected in seasons 5 unwards, run into the wall that the Federation has only so many ships and that there are other worlds to protect.
In fact I can imagine in the DS9 future, some people from such conquered planets as Betazid thinking why exactly SHOULD they like the Bajoran's? After all it was from their celestial temple that the Dominion came through. And their prophets did nothing (until Sacrifice of Angels)
3: The argument that the Federation didn't do enough to guard the Bajoran sector before the war is moot when you see Way of the Warrior. Where did all that retro-fitting come from? Certainly not the Bajorans. And I presume it takes a while for that to be planned and designed, in the meantime they assigned the Defiant to the station.
Yes Starfleet only assigned 3 runabouts at the start of the show. But to be brutally honest, in seasons 1 and 2, Bajor was not a strategic sector. The wormhole was a scientific discovery, not a military one. The Federation does not have infinite resources. Why should it spare them to guard a non-Federation world? Especially a world that takes pains to say that its an independent planet.
4: "Wormhole Aliens" or "Gods"? Who cares? Its just a name.
Live and let live. Yes the Federation could be more sensitive I guess, but the Bajorans are leaving their world and travelling the wider galaxy now. They must realise that not everyone shares their beliefs. Meeting a few non-Bajorans on the station who don't, should not be a shock.
5: As regards the Romulan issue, well the Romulans were a major power fighting against an enemy who came through the Bajoran's celestial temple. They supplied more resources to the Dominion War effort than the Bajoran's did. It was a no-brainer. Yes the Romulans should not have put weapons on the moon and when the war was over the Federation would doubtless have done something about it. But not during the war. Not when Federation worlds were being invaded by the Dominion and they needed help.
My opinion is that the Bajoran's were only really prickely at the start of the show. And its understandable, the Cardassians have just left and they see more foreigners arriving. After that, they see that the Federation is different and their animosity fades. Plus the Bajoran's have relaxed a bit. I didn't see much butting of heads after season 3. Although thats probably due to the Dominion storyline. But everything is fine.
However as mentioned, I see plenty of reasons for individual Federation worlds that were conquered by the Dominion to not feel so disposed to the Bajorans after the war. It was their wormhole after all.
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Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
That's the point of guerilla war and terrorism: to create fear and insecurity in the target. If your forces are much, much, much weaker than the enemy occupying forces, you know you can't literally defeat them, but you use tactics that will make them realize that they can never be certain when and where you'll attack. In order to achieve this, Bajoran resistance had to be ruthless and spare no one - as Kira pointed out, if Cardassians put their basis among Bajoran population in the hope that this would protect them, the Resistance would still attack them, whoever gets killed in the process. When the Cardassians realized that none of them were secure on Bajor, I'm sure that many of them started to wonder 'is it really worth'. Back home, some people were probably starting to ask the same - with operations being continuously disrupted, buildings and equipment destroyed, and people killed, is what we're getting out of it really worth the trouble?
Now, if they had discovered the wormhole - things would have changed completely and they would have definitely stayed.
As for the supposed "political pressure" from UFP and other powers, is there any evidence for that anywhere on screen? They only mention it on MA, but don't specify what it was.
Someone who lost their loved ones in the war might think that the wormhole should have been collapsed, but I doubt that the Federation officials would ever even consider it. If there is a chance for exploration and expansion into the Gamma Quandrant, they would always take it, no matter how many lives are lost.
This is how I see it. What the "political decision" actually mean, IMO, is that what they were getting out of Bajor at that point was not worth the cost of maintaining the occupation: the mining operations were not considered useful enough anymore, and it was questionable whether it was even possible to get that much of needed minerals out of Bajor, to justify continuing with the occupation, which had cost Cardassia a lot in people and other military and civilian resources, since they constantly had to deal with the terrorists attacks on the military and civilian personnel, building and objects. In other words: the Bajoran resistance did drive away the Cardassians, but of course it was not "only" that: if the Cardassians had had a strong enough incentive to stay, if they had thought that they could get a lot more from Bajor, they would have still stayed there despite the problems that the Resistance posed. On the other hand, if the Resistance had not been strong, persistent and carrying many successful attacks, the Cardassians would never have had any reason to leave, since there were no doubt still getting something out of Bajor.
That's the point of guerilla war and terrorism: to create fear and insecurity in the target. If your forces are much, much, much weaker than the enemy occupying forces, you know you can't literally defeat them, but you use tactics that will make them realize that they can never be certain when and where you'll attack. In order to achieve this, Bajoran resistance had to be ruthless and spare no one - as Kira pointed out, if Cardassians put their basis among Bajoran population in the hope that this would protect them, the Resistance would still attack them, whoever gets killed in the process. When the Cardassians realized that none of them were secure on Bajor, I'm sure that many of them started to wonder 'is it really worth'. Back home, some people were probably starting to ask the same - with operations being continuously disrupted, buildings and equipment destroyed, and people killed, is what we're getting out of it really worth the trouble?
Now, if they had discovered the wormhole - things would have changed completely and they would have definitely stayed.
As for the supposed "political pressure" from UFP and other powers, is there any evidence for that anywhere on screen? They only mention it on MA, but don't specify what it was.
They should blame Sisko, he discovered it.
Someone who lost their loved ones in the war might think that the wormhole should have been collapsed, but I doubt that the Federation officials would ever even consider it. If there is a chance for exploration and expansion into the Gamma Quandrant, they would always take it, no matter how many lives are lost.
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Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
But Bajor was neutral for much of the Dominion War.
if anything it was Sisko who saved Bajor. In that season five episode where he had the visions from the Prophets, he said that locusts would come and destroy Bajor and move to Cardassia. Well, if Bajor had joined the Federation then, the fleet in Inferno's Light would have attacked Bajor.
It seemed even that after the Federation re-took DS9, the Bajoran system was never under threat from the Dominion again, at least they never made an effort to re-take DS9 from the Federation again.
But Bajor was neutral for much of the Dominion War.
if anything it was Sisko who saved Bajor. In that season five episode where he had the visions from the Prophets, he said that locusts would come and destroy Bajor and move to Cardassia. Well, if Bajor had joined the Federation then, the fleet in Inferno's Light would have attacked Bajor.
It seemed even that after the Federation re-took DS9, the Bajoran system was never under threat from the Dominion again, at least they never made an effort to re-take DS9 from the Federation again.
Re: Boy did the Federation have the patience of a Saint with the Bajor
Sloppy writing in Ds9 was what got irritating.
The Federation was apparently unable to spare at least 25 ships to help protect the station when the Dominion first attacked.
Not to mention the Klingons.
If both players contributed 25 ships each (which is nothing to them) when the initial attack happened, then the station would have 50 ships in addition, and there is a good possibility that the Dominion would not spread and the war would have gone differently.
The war was written in the capacity so the Feds were supposed to suffer heavy losses.
Never mind the fact they managed to modify their shields to be effective by the time the Defiant was released into service, they also captured a Dominion ship well before the war started.
Idiots.
Sloppy writing in Ds9 was what got irritating.
The Federation was apparently unable to spare at least 25 ships to help protect the station when the Dominion first attacked.
Not to mention the Klingons.
If both players contributed 25 ships each (which is nothing to them) when the initial attack happened, then the station would have 50 ships in addition, and there is a good possibility that the Dominion would not spread and the war would have gone differently.
The war was written in the capacity so the Feds were supposed to suffer heavy losses.
Never mind the fact they managed to modify their shields to be effective by the time the Defiant was released into service, they also captured a Dominion ship well before the war started.
Idiots.
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