Bourne vs Bond

[RobertScorpio]

We watched all of the Bourne movies this weekend...and I have to say that everyone of them is, IMO, superior to every recent Bond film (Brosnan/Craig) with only Tomorrow Never Dies and Casino Royale offering any challenge.

What about you...which movie series do you prefer now and why?

Rob

 

[Chrisisall]

What about you...which movie series do you prefer now and why?

Rob

Bond. And if we're only talkin' RECENT movies, Goldeneye & Tomorrow Never Dies ALONE blow the Bourne flicks away IMO, because Bourne was reaching for a certain level of reality that it managed to DUMP during every single action scene. Bond movies usually know what level of reality (unreality) they're working on, & more or less stick to it.
But that said, I do find the Bourne movies entertaining.

 

[Broccoli]

The Bond movies, even the bad ones, are usually pretty fun. The Bourne ones, not so much and they tend to get a tad convoluted for my tastes.

 

[Captaindemotion]

The Bourne movies have, IMHO, surpassed even the Die Hard series as the best overall series of action movies (even if no one of them beats Die Hard as a movie). So I vote for Mr Damon's alter ego.

To be fair, the Bond series has some serious longevity, which I don't think the Bourne series can have, given its concept. Nor will Bourne ever be as influential or iconic. And with over 20 movies, the quality of the 007 movies inevitably has to fluctuate. But I still don't think the best Bond movie, for all their influence, is as good as the weakest Bourne one.

 

[AntonyF]

Bourne, for sure.

I liked a couple of the Brosnan movies, but I find the new Craig ones uttery dire. They are actually trying to be Bourne movies... and Bourne makes better Bourne.

 

[RobertScorpio]

The Bourne movies have, IMHO, surpassed even the Die Hard series as the best overall series of action movies (even if no one of them beats Die Hard as a movie). So I vote for Mr Damon's alter ego.

To be fair, the Bond series has some serious longevity, which I don't think the Bourne series can have, given its concept. Nor will Bourne ever be as influential or iconic. And with over 20 movies, the quality of the 007 movies inevitably has to fluctuate. But I still don't think the best Bond movie, for all their influence, is as good as the weakest Bourne one.

I agree about DIE HARD being the benchmark...

I thought Goldeneye was weak, with very bad FX (the plane going over the cliff was right up there with Kirk falling off the mountain). I do agree that Tomorrow Never Dies being a good movie..but the other three Bosnan movies were AWFUL, and that's being polite...

The Bourne series has surpassed the recent Bond movies, and thats the gist of this thread. QUATUM, I think, tried to copy Bourne's style and suffered for it...Overall? Bond is an Icon. He just needs better writing / directing...

Rob

 

[Starkers]

Bond. To be honest I don't quite get how well regarded Bourne is. I loved the first one, but the second was too jarring and the third one just seemed to be the second one done slightly different.

Bond has personality bourne, unfortunately has none--to me at least.

 

[JacksonArcher]

This is tough. I grew up on James Bond, and he is an iconic part of our pop culture, but I also really enjoy the Jason Bourne movies. I am not even sure if I can pick one over the other.

 

[RobertScorpio]

This is tough. I grew up on James Bond, and he is an iconic part of our pop culture, but I also really enjoy the Jason Bourne movies. I am not even sure if I can pick one over the other.

Which is why I narrowed it to the recent Bond films. Ultimately I give the Brosnan era a score of D-..failure. He made five movies I think? And only two of them, IMO, were good (if you count Goldeneye, which I dont). So that means one good movie out of five attempts? That is a bad showing...

Craig is 1-1. And, I think, the weakest of the Bourne movies, number three, is still far better than the weakest Brosnan movies....

Rob

 

[BenRoethig]

The current craig bond with few or any gadgets, Bourne beats the crap out of him and steals his Martini and the chick he was about to shag.

Previous Bonds just take out one of Q's creations and dispense with Bourne.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I'm a fan of the Bourne stuff 'n all, but Bond is Bond.

 

[JacksonArcher]

Which is why I narrowed it to the recent Bond films. Ultimately I give the Brosnan era a score of D-..failure. He made five movies I think? And only two of them, IMO, were good (if you count Goldeneye, which I dont). So that means one good movie out of five attempts? That is a bad showing...

Craig is 1-1. And, I think, the weakest of the Bourne movies, number three, is still far better than the weakest Brosnan movies....

Rob

Ahh... I'm sorry but I think I lapsed over that part of your post. He made four films: GoldenEye, Tomorrow Never Dies, The World Is Not Enough and Die Another Day. As much as I love Brosnan as Bond, none of his movies really stand out besides GoldenEye.

I loved both of Craig's films.

I guess the edge goes to Jason Bourne. Like you said, even the weakest in the series, which I think is The Bourne Identity and not Ultimatum, is better than most if not all of Brosnan's films (Well, actually... I think GoldenEye is superior to Identity).

 

[RobertScorpio]

Which is why I narrowed it to the recent Bond films. Ultimately I give the Brosnan era a score of D-..failure. He made five movies I think? And only two of them, IMO, were good (if you count Goldeneye, which I dont). So that means one good movie out of five attempts? That is a bad showing...

Craig is 1-1. And, I think, the weakest of the Bourne movies, number three, is still far better than the weakest Brosnan movies....

Rob

Ahh... I'm sorry but I think I lapsed over that part of your post. He made four films: GoldenEye, Tomorrow Never Dies, The World Is Not Enough and Die Another Day. As much as I love Brosnan as Bond, none of his movies really stand out besides GoldenEye.

I loved both of Craig's films.

I guess the edge goes to Jason Bourne. Like you said, even the weakest in the series, which I think is The Bourne Identity and not Ultimatum, is better than most if not all of Brosnan's films (Well, actually... I think GoldenEye is superior to Identity).

I am a Bond fan, don't get me wrong. All in all, the Bond series has been fun. Heck, the behind the scenes 'drama' is almost as good as the movies!!!

Rob

 

[JacksonArcher]

Which is why I narrowed it to the recent Bond films. Ultimately I give the Brosnan era a score of D-..failure. He made five movies I think? And only two of them, IMO, were good (if you count Goldeneye, which I dont). So that means one good movie out of five attempts? That is a bad showing...

Craig is 1-1. And, I think, the weakest of the Bourne movies, number three, is still far better than the weakest Brosnan movies....

Rob

Ahh... I'm sorry but I think I lapsed over that part of your post. He made four films: GoldenEye, Tomorrow Never Dies, The World Is Not Enough and Die Another Day. As much as I love Brosnan as Bond, none of his movies really stand out besides GoldenEye.

I loved both of Craig's films.

I guess the edge goes to Jason Bourne. Like you said, even the weakest in the series, which I think is The Bourne Identity and not Ultimatum, is better than most if not all of Brosnan's films (Well, actually... I think GoldenEye is superior to Identity).

I am a Bond fan, don't get me wrong. All in all, the Bond series has been fun. Heck, the behind the scenes 'drama' is almost as good as the movies!!!

Rob

The Brosnan Bond movies hold a certain nostalgic quality to me since he was the Bond I grew up with. I believe GoldenEye was the first Bond movie I ever saw. However I just think comparatively the Bourne movies are better made, if you're using the Brosnan/Craig movies as comparison.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Ahh... I'm sorry but I think I lapsed over that part of your post. He made four films: GoldenEye, Tomorrow Never Dies, The World Is Not Enough and Die Another Day. As much as I love Brosnan as Bond, none of his movies really stand out besides GoldenEye.

I loved both of Craig's films.

I guess the edge goes to Jason Bourne. Like you said, even the weakest in the series, which I think is The Bourne Identity and not Ultimatum, is better than most if not all of Brosnan's films (Well, actually... I think GoldenEye is superior to Identity).

I am a Bond fan, don't get me wrong. All in all, the Bond series has been fun. Heck, the behind the scenes 'drama' is almost as good as the movies!!!

Rob

The Brosnan Bond movies hold a certain nostalgic quality to me since he was the Bond I grew up with. I believe GoldenEye was the first Bond movie I ever saw. However I just think comparatively the Bourne movies are better made, if you're using the Brosnan/Craig movies as comparison.

So you must be pretty young. How do the Connery/Moore/Dalton movies up for someone your age?

I actually like them all for different reasons. I thought Connery had that magical touch, hard to put into words. I think his movies do tend to be slower, which makes them unwatchable for my kids.

Roger Moore's movies were either really good (Spy Who Loved Me/For Your Eyes Only) or really bad (The Man With the Golden Gun/Moonraker). But my kids prefer his movie because of the comic touches..

Dalton, I think, got the short end of the stick. I actually liked him and wish he had gotten one more chance.

Brosnan I liked, and I think he was a great bond. I just think the way the stories were being told was getting a bit old, and needed some 'modernization'.

Casino Royale, I think, was the best Bond film in years. Craig isn't as suave as Brosnan, but I think he is the better actor and his fight scenes are a bit more believable. The problem I had with Quatim was the slow pace of the movie. I hope the third one, (is there one in the pipes?) will be a bit more like Casino...

PS..I think HER MAGESTY'S SECRET SERVICE is the best Bond movie ever...go figure!

Rob

 

[Chrisisall]

I forgive the crappy Kirk fall in Goldeneye as a budget issue- the rest of the flick was...golden.
Tomorrow Never Dies is arguably the best Bond since Goldfinger, and The World Is Not Enough is criminally under-rated IMO (you can flush Die Another Day).
Bourne suffers from incessant shaky-cam, like its copycat movie, Optimus Prime Of Solace, or whatever it was called.
Now, can we dump Craig (a fine actor, but wrong for Bond IMO) & pick up Clive Owen, like they should have? Hmm?

 

[RobertScorpio]

I forgive the crappy Kirk fall in Goldeneye as a budget issue- the rest of the flick was...golden.
Tomorrow Never Dies is arguably the best Bond since Goldfinger, and The World Is Not Enough is criminally under-rated IMO (you can flush Die Another Day).
Bourne suffers from incessant shaky-cam, like its copycat movie, Optimus Prime Of Solace, or whatever it was called.
Now, can we dump Craig (a fine actor, but wrong for Bond IMO) & pick up Clive Owen, like they should have? Hmm?

Ummm...you know what? I am a Craig fan, but I do like Clive Owen..what about that Gerard Butler guy? Is he english??? Then again, we could always go back toward a Roger Moore kind of Bond with Jude Law...

Rob

 

[JacksonArcher]

So you must be pretty young. How do the Connery/Moore/Dalton movies up for someone your age?

I'm 20. I was pretty young when I saw GoldenEye. It was right around the time the N64 game came out which was a pretty huge deal for my friends and I.

I'm a big fan of the Connery movies. From Russia With Love and Goldfinger are my favorite Connery films. I could never get into the Moore films because I felt like he never took the role seriously, which I think is true because I remember reading somewhere that he felt like James Bond was a joke. He is a secret agent and everybody knows his name, so he never played it straight. I have a problem with that approach, but regardless I do appreciate The Spy Who Loved Me.

I've only seen one Dalton film (License to Kill) and I hated it. I'm going to check out The Living Daylights one of these days.

I actually like them all for different reasons. I thought Connery had that magical touch, hard to put into words. I think his movies do tend to be slower, which makes them unwatchable for my kids.

I like slow movies, so they're not a problem for me. Some of my favorite movies are dramas.

Roger Moore's movies were either really good (Spy Who Loved Me/For Your Eyes Only) or really bad (The Man With the Golden Gun/Moonraker). But my kids prefer his movie because of the comic touches..

Again, I could never get into any of Moore's films besides The Spy Who Loved because of the comic touches. Moonraker was just... laughable, in my humble opinion.

Dalton, I think, got the short end of the stick. I actually liked him and wish he had gotten one more chance.

I need to check out The Living Daylights one of these days.

Brosnan I liked, and I think he was a great bond. I just think the way the stories were being told was getting a bit old, and needed some 'modernization'.

Funny, because I think they were trying to do exactly that in GoldenEye: modernize Bond for a new century. Thus M calling Bond a "relic of the Cold War" in that film. If anything, I think they fall to modernization too much, and installments like Die Another Day devolve into generic action movie formula.

Casino Royale, I think, was the best Bond film in years.

I absolutely agree.

Craig isn't as suave as Brosnan, but I think he is the better actor and his fight scenes are a bit more believable.

Absolutely. I could believe Craig as Bond. Brosnan was still believable, but Craig's portrayal made Bond feel more... human. At least to me.

The problem I had with [Quantum of Solace] was the slow pace of the movie. I hope the third one, (is there one in the pipes?) will be a bit more like Casino...

Really? I thought Quantum of Solace was incredibly faster paced in comparison to Casino Royale. Also, FYI, there is a third Craig Bond movie in development. It's being written by Peter Morgan, writer of such acclaimed historical pieces such as The Queen and Frost/Nixon. I'm excited to see what he does with the twenty-third James Bond film.

PS..I think HER MAGESTY'S SECRET SERVICE is the best Bond movie ever...go figure!

I would actually kind of agree. For me it's a toss-up between Your Majesty's Secret Service and Casino Royale.

 

[Chrisisall]

what about that Gerard Butler guy? Is he english???

Scottish. He'd be okay, but Clive is THE choice IMO.

Then again, we could always go back toward a Roger Moore kind of Bond with Jude Law...

Forbid....FOR...BID....

 

[JacksonArcher]

I can see Jude Law playing a straight Bond. I don't think he has the right physical structure though, after seeing Craig as Bond. I always wanted Clive Owen. I think Craig has been killer in the role, though, but I wouldn't mind Owen once Craig hangs up the tuxedo.

Also, I think Hugh Dancy (King Arthur), Sam Worthington (Avatar), and Henry Cavill (The Tudors) would all be good replacements to Craig.