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"Boring" Films vs Viewing Conditions

What condition were you in when viewing these films?


  • Total voters
    19
All three films I was calm when I watched them. I respect Star Trek (The scenery is pretty good), and actually liked Blade Runner but 2001 is a movie I never want to see again. It was boring and just not very good. Surprised at all the accolades it gets
 
Surprised at all the accolades it gets
Surprised?
At a film that pleads with the audience to actually consider the great existential questions we face, such as why are we here and are we alone? At a film that doesn't spoon-feed any answers? at film that not only revolutionized sci fi but also horror? A film that actually depicted space as accurately as could be done at that time? A film that was surprisingly accurate in predicting what the moon's surface actually looked like?

You might not like the film. It might not have enough dialogue to keep you interested. It might not be edited like 'kick-ass' for people with microscopic attention spans. It might not feature any trendy music, or any cool one-liners. But are you really surprised as to why it is so highly regarded, or are you just trying to make yourself feel better for not being able to appreciate a different kind of film?
 
Surprised at all the accolades it gets
Surprised?
At a film that pleads with the audience to actually consider the great existential questions we face, such as why are we here and are we alone? At a film that doesn't spoon-feed any answers? at film that not only revolutionized sci fi but also horror? A film that actually depicted space as accurately as could be done at that time? A film that was surprisingly accurate in predicting what the moon's surface actually looked like?

You might not like the film. It might not have enough dialogue to keep you interested. It might not be edited like 'kick-ass' for people with microscopic attention spans. It might not feature any trendy music, or any cool one-liners. But are you really surprised as to why it is so highly regarded, or are you just trying to make yourself feel better for not being able to appreciate a different kind of film?

No, I'm not trying to make myself feel better, as I respect all kinds of films. I just found this one boring and overrated. However, if it makes you feel better by attacking someone's opinion and get up on your freaking high horse, go right ahead dude. :rolleyes:
 
Relax. I wasn't attacking your opinion. i can understand and even agree with why you find it boring.

Notice what i quoted. I was attacking the statement you made that you are surprised that it got the accolades that it did.
 
Relax. I wasn't attacking your opinion. i can understand and even agree with why you find it boring.

Notice what i quoted. I was attacking the statement you made that you are surprised that it got the accolades that it did.

Ok, and sorry for the outburst. It was the last paragraph that got me riled up and where most of the reaction came from.

Maybe surprising isn't the right word given it is one of the most famous films ever made. I'm sure at the time it opened the door to new possibilities and got people interested in the Scifi Genre. Can't argue with that that much but perhaps because I'm young I just couldn't get into it as much as I probably should have. You also say something about an inability to like certain films. Well, earlier this year I saw the movie "Moon" because of all the good words/reviews it got and I was enthralled by it. It kind of reminded me of 2001 because of the ideas it presented, but I thought it did so with more energy and suspense. They're probably different films, but I compared them mainly to show that I can appreciate different kinds of films and ideas instead of all the "kewl explosions" and the like.
 
Relax. I wasn't attacking your opinion. i can understand and even agree with why you find it boring.

Notice what i quoted. I was attacking the statement you made that you are surprised that it got the accolades that it did.

Ok, and sorry for the outburst. It was the last paragraph that got me riled up and where most of the reaction came from.

Maybe surprising isn't the right word given it is one of the most famous films ever made. I'm sure at the time it opened the door to new possibilities and got people interested in the Scifi Genre. Can't argue with that that much but perhaps because I'm young I just couldn't get into it as much as I probably should have. You also say something about an inability to like certain films. Well, earlier this year I saw the movie "Moon" because of all the good words/reviews it got and I was enthralled by it. It kind of reminded me of 2001 because of the ideas it presented, but I thought it did so with more energy and suspense. They're probably different films, but I compared them mainly to show that I can appreciate different kinds of films and ideas instead of all the "kewl explosions" and the like.

:)
First of all, i was a bit confrontational. i was kind out of line and for that, I apologize. My thinking was that in any good spirited debate, it sometimes can help both parties to make statements blunt, because getting someone riled you can make the debate interesting, so long as it is not a true personal attack. If I said to my brother in a debate that he is a "bull-shitter' doesn't mean that he is actually a bullshitter, as i was talking about his claims in the argument. I said it to him, but it was about his argument. In other words, in a true spirited debate, getting fired up a bit actually allows people to get to the core feelings about the subject.

Still, i apologize.

I understand that there might be a generation gap here or that a lot of it depends on just, well, what people are used to watching (by the way, Moon was a good one.)

When I was a little kid, I found myself drawn to 2001. I didn't like it the way I liked Star Wars, or Lego's, or whatever. But when it was one, even back then I knew I had to watch it in a different light. I remember asking my family what the monkeys were doing, yet, what I do remember was that I actually innately knew. These were primitive man being enlightened by something foreign. everything about the film, including its slow pace, told me that it should be taken in a different light than most films.

The paragraph I just wrote was just a general observation and was not meant as a response to you or your post, so it should not be construed as a further attack. Nor do I intend it to be condescending ("I got the movie as a kid and you don't now!') I am just sharing why my experience may be different than yours. :)
 
This is starting to remind me of how I felt when I burned-out in college as an English Writing major (got the degree eventually) and was sick of figuratively tearing books apart via analysis. I wanted to read for the enjoyment of reading and talk about the aspects I enjoyed talking about, not spend hours digging through the work and dissecting it looking for deeper meaning which may or may not have been the creators' intent.

Maybe some people feel that being able to analyze a work in-depth means they are better able to appreciate it than someone who doesn't perform that level of criticism, but does that really matter so long as the less-analytical person is still appreciating the film?

I think you make a perfectly valid point. Of course there's nothing wrong with simply enjoying a book or film, more or less putting your brain into cruise control, and just accepting the work for its entertainment value. And absolutely, many great books and movies can be enjoyed even on the surface level of entertainment. As a college professor myself, I can tell you that, absolutely, there are times when I just want to read the damn book and NOT think about the subtle messages and images and social contexts of the work. A movie like, say, Minority Report, works exceptionally well as an action/mystery/sci-fi/thriller, and even if you don't spend a great deal of time thinking about it, you can still love it. The same goes for most latter-day Spielberg movies (Saving Private Ryan and Munich, especially), as well as Inception, Serious Man, and tons of others. On the other hand, if you DO spend a week afterwards trying to deal, intellectually, with the philosophical implications of these films, or you watch or rewatch them with your brain very much on active, you can enjoy them on a completely different level.

Some movies, though, and some books, simply DON'T WORK on that surface-level of entertainment. That doesn't make them a better or worse movie or book, just a very different one. They simply don't rely on narrative, or traditional notions of character or suspense, and unless you watch them with that active intellectual approach, they may offer you very little. 2001 is one of those movies. All of Samuel Beckett's books and plays also fall into that category. They just don't work as entertaining storytelling for anyone who isn't meeting them half-way, but the reason they are magnificent is because they are intensely compelling, enthralling, and entertaining, as long as you watch/read them very actively and intellectually. You can say books or movies "shouldn't" require a different approach than any other movie or book, but "should" has nothing to do with it - some works simply DO.
 
This is starting to remind me of how I felt when I burned-out in college as an English Writing major (got the degree eventually) and was sick of figuratively tearing books apart via analysis. I wanted to read for the enjoyment of reading and talk about the aspects I enjoyed talking about, not spend hours digging through the work and dissecting it looking for deeper meaning which may or may not have been the creators' intent.

Maybe some people feel that being able to analyze a work in-depth means they are better able to appreciate it than someone who doesn't perform that level of criticism, but does that really matter so long as the less-analytical person is still appreciating the film?

I think you make a perfectly valid point. Of course there's nothing wrong with simply enjoying a book or film, more or less putting your brain into cruise control, and just accepting the work for its entertainment value. And absolutely, many great books and movies can be enjoyed even on the surface level of entertainment. As a college professor myself, I can tell you that, absolutely, there are times when I just want to read the damn book and NOT think about the subtle messages and images and social contexts of the work. A movie like, say, Minority Report, works exceptionally well as an action/mystery/sci-fi/thriller, and even if you don't spend a great deal of time thinking about it, you can still love it. The same goes for most latter-day Spielberg movies (Saving Private Ryan and Munich, especially), as well as Inception, Serious Man, and tons of others. On the other hand, if you DO spend a week afterwards trying to deal, intellectually, with the philosophical implications of these films, or you watch or rewatch them with your brain very much on active, you can enjoy them on a completely different level.

Some movies, though, and some books, simply DON'T WORK on that surface-level of entertainment. That doesn't make them a better or worse movie or book, just a very different one. They simply don't rely on narrative, or traditional notions of character or suspense, and unless you watch them with that active intellectual approach, they may offer you very little. 2001 is one of those movies. All of Samuel Beckett's books and plays also fall into that category. They just don't work as entertaining storytelling for anyone who isn't meeting them half-way, but the reason they are magnificent is because they are intensely compelling, enthralling, and entertaining, as long as you watch/read them very actively and intellectually. You can say books or movies "shouldn't" require a different approach than any other movie or book, but "should" has nothing to do with it - some works simply DO.

Quoted for truth.

Normally, I don't do that. But here it is necessary.
 
Wow, are you guys done patting each other on the back for revealing the "truth" of deep fiction to the rest of the unwashed masses? Good.

I don't accept your premise. It's typical collegiate elitism to think there's hidden meaning only you and the other intelligensia can see in shitty books and movies. You like them and that's great. Other people don't and it's not because we weren't issued the secret silver decoder ring you're using to reveal the fabulous mysteries hidden within shitty media. In our opinion, they're just not very good.

Our opinion isn't gospel.

Your opinion is not the truth.

Feel free to drop the condescension.
 
Wow, are you guys done patting each other on the back for revealing the "truth" of deep fiction to the rest of the unwashed masses? Good.

I don't accept your premise. It's typical collegiate elitism to think there's hidden meaning only you and the other intelligensia can see in shitty books and movies. You like them and that's great. Other people don't and it's not because we weren't issued the secret silver decoder ring you're using to reveal the fabulous mysteries hidden within shitty media. In our opinion, they're just not very good.

Our opinion isn't gospel.

Your opinion is not the truth.

Feel free to drop the condescension.

Um...where did I say (or even imply) that there was some elite intelligentsia that can "get" things that the "unwashed masses" can't? You inserted that premise into my words, I didn't mean anything like that. There is absolutely NOTHING in 2001 or Blade Runner or Samuel Beckett or James Joyce or any other more difficult work of art that any relatively intelligent person couldn't understand. It's just a matter of motivation. If someone is motivated to try to "get" 2001, meaning to watch it slowly and carefully as I've described 2 or 3 times, then they will be able to see what Kubrick was trying to accomplish. If they don't, then they won't. It isn't too smart for anyone; all you need is the interest and time to do it.

There is no college that has decided what are great works of art. Only time has done that, and that is the only objective criteria. Why do people still read and perform Shakespeare while Ben Jonson is more or less forgotten? Because Shakespeare is better. No college elitist decided that. Time and all of humanity have decided that. Hamlet and King Lear are masterpieces of human drama. If you think they're boring, it's because you don't know how to watch them. You're not too stupid to know, I never said that, you just haven't bothered. If you, or anyone, bothers to give Hamlet the time and focus it requires, they too will be affected by it. If you think Hamlet is shitty, you're wrong; time has proven you wrong. Also, the pyramids are not shitty works of architecture, and if you think they are, or if they bore you, then you don't know anything about architecture. You're not too stupid to know - you just haven't bothered.

Anyway, all of this is a moot point. You, personally, if you actually sat down and tried to watch 2001 in the way I suggest, or if you took a class on it that had a really good teacher, you may find yourself, to your surprise - gasp! - actually enjoying it. I've seen hundreds of students walk into a class hating something, and walking out loving it. It does happen. It's perfectly possible, and common. And that too proves that there is something more than mere shittiness in these works of art.
 
"Blade Runner" ... was one of the most disappointing movies I've ever seen. The production design, special effects, and make-up were magnificent, but I couldn't care less about any of the characters or the story.
Same here. I have no idea if I was "rested, focussed, caffeinated" when I saw that movie - I really don't keep track of such things - but it struck me pretty much exactly as Too Much Fun describes; great to look at, but peopled with characters I couldn't care less about. Subsequent viewings have only reinforced that impression.

I don't know if I was "rested, focussed, caffeinated" when I first saw 2001. I know I saw it on a small black and white TV, complete with ads, and was utterly blown away by the movie (having said that, I get why it doesn't appeal to everyone. To each their own). I likewise don't know how rested or caffeinated or whatever I was when I first saw TMP, but although I like it more than most seem to nothing will ever make all those Enterprise beauty passes or the 20-odd (seemingly eternal) minutes of crawling into V'Ger anything other than boring.

The idea that there are some sort of "ideal" conditions in which one must watch a(ny) movie in order to arrive at the "right" conclusion about its worth is rather patronising. It tends to come across as someone effectively saying "watch it the right way and you'll see the light!" and that's really not going to help anyone see it that way. I've watched Blade Runner enough times now to know that - regardless of conditions - I am never going to like those characters. However many times I watch TMP - regardless of conditions - those beauty passes and that (seemingly) endless crawl into V'ger are always going to bore me. I'm probably always going to consider 2001 one of the best movies I've ever seen, but that doesn't mean I have to insist other people watch it until they arrive at that conclusion as well. Nothing appeals to everyone, for the simple reason that we're not all the same. If someone doesn't like a movie (or TV show or whatever) that you (general you) do, what does it matter? It doesn't - shouldn't - change or invalidate your own appreciation of the work if someone else doesn't like it as much as you do. They're just movies. To each their own. :bolian:
 
This is starting to remind me of how I felt when I burned-out in college as an English Writing major (got the degree eventually) and was sick of figuratively tearing books apart via analysis. I wanted to read for the enjoyment of reading and talk about the aspects I enjoyed talking about, not spend hours digging through the work and dissecting it looking for deeper meaning which may or may not have been the creators' intent.

Maybe some people feel that being able to analyze a work in-depth means they are better able to appreciate it than someone who doesn't perform that level of criticism, but does that really matter so long as the less-analytical person is still appreciating the film?

I think you make a perfectly valid point. Of course there's nothing wrong with simply enjoying a book or film, more or less putting your brain into cruise control, and just accepting the work for its entertainment value. And absolutely, many great books and movies can be enjoyed even on the surface level of entertainment. As a college professor myself, I can tell you that, absolutely, there are times when I just want to read the damn book and NOT think about the subtle messages and images and social contexts of the work. A movie like, say, Minority Report, works exceptionally well as an action/mystery/sci-fi/thriller, and even if you don't spend a great deal of time thinking about it, you can still love it. The same goes for most latter-day Spielberg movies (Saving Private Ryan and Munich, especially), as well as Inception, Serious Man, and tons of others. On the other hand, if you DO spend a week afterwards trying to deal, intellectually, with the philosophical implications of these films, or you watch or rewatch them with your brain very much on active, you can enjoy them on a completely different level.

Some movies, though, and some books, simply DON'T WORK on that surface-level of entertainment. That doesn't make them a better or worse movie or book, just a very different one. They simply don't rely on narrative, or traditional notions of character or suspense, and unless you watch them with that active intellectual approach, they may offer you very little. 2001 is one of those movies. All of Samuel Beckett's books and plays also fall into that category. They just don't work as entertaining storytelling for anyone who isn't meeting them half-way, but the reason they are magnificent is because they are intensely compelling, enthralling, and entertaining, as long as you watch/read them very actively and intellectually. You can say books or movies "shouldn't" require a different approach than any other movie or book, but "should" has nothing to do with it - some works simply DO.

Quoted for truth.

Normally, I don't do that. But here it is necessary.

QFT. :shifty:
 
I think the biggest flaw to the "Did you see the movie under the right conditions?" argument is that I think the average TrekBBS poster is self-aware enough to realize or at least acknowledge when they are seeing a movie under sub-par conditions...or at least sub-par for them. Consequently, asking whether someone's dislike of Blade Runner or such is dependent on the conditions is a pointless exercise because if they had seen the film under such conditions they would acknowledge it in their review.

Though maybe I'm just optimistic about my fellow BBSers. :)
 
I'll admit I'm pretty sure I was drunk when I watched Blade Runner last. I can't remember much about it. :lol:

I like TMP. I think it's one of the better Trek movies. I've always liked it, even as a kid when I first saw it. I like when Trek does mystery type stories over action. Though, Kahn and First Contact are both good Trek action films.

I've seen 2001 in various states of intoxication (isn't that kind of traditional?) and it does certainly affect the viewing of it. I think the most enjoyment I've gotten out of it was stone sober though. In fact my appreciation of the movie continues to grow the more times I see it.
 
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