By that logic, the Galaxy class was designed to investigate things that could sometimes split in half.
Borg timeline error?
- Thread starter Earl_Grey
- Start date
By that logic, the Galaxy class was designed to investigate things that could sometimes split in half.
Granted... Sisko mentioned that the Defiant was a prototype, the first ship in 'what would have been the Federation battlefleet.'
But then he went on to say the project was abandoned as the Borg threat became less urgent and design flaws popped up.
It essentially implies that the battlefleet idea never panned out.
The Defiant was the only ship from that 'family' that got developed and abandoned before 'The Search' aired.
The dialogue clearly implies it.
From that conversation alone, I have to surmise that SF was idiotic to abandon it.
They very well knew the threat the Borg represented and could have proceeded with the idea just to be cautious (because the Federation is quite frankly 'huge' - and given SF's at the time limitations with Warp speed as evident, having more ships throughout would save time in response times).
And yes, you make a good point regarding the registry entries on newest ships such as the Defiant and Intrepid (plus we know the Sovereign class was a new design as well of that period much like the Prometheus).
We have little to no indication the Saber, Norway and Steamrunner class ships are 'new'.
Look at Ds9 as a station.
It wasn't up until they met the Dominion that SF decided to commit certain resources in upgrading the station to the point as seen in the first battle with the Klingon fleet - and that was less than year after 'the Search'.
Prior to that, we know the station was pitiful at best in the opening 2 episodes of Ds9, but SF for example could have turned it into a full-fledged fortress by Season 2 alone.
And seriously, being on the 'outskirts' of Federation territory where help (at the time) was not exactly around the corner, you'd be an idiot to not try and make a secure foothold.
The way Sf was portrayed in numerous situations on-screen was 'lax' at best - even after recognizing the urgency of needing to be 'prepared'.
I don't see why the Akiras, Sabers, Norways and Steamrunners would be considered old ships. Their aesthetics look more in line with Post-Wolf 359 vessels (Sovereign, Defiant, Intrepid) than with older classes.
Just because the Defiant project was put on the back burner doesn't mean the entire "New Battlefleet" idea was.
Just because the Defiant project was put on the back burner doesn't mean the entire "New Battlefleet" idea was.
But most of the 'older classes' we saw were of the Kirk era (Miranda, Excelsior and Constellation class)...
The Ambassador class for example comes from the pre TNG era which is 20 years before the Galaxy class came into the picture.
I could see the Sabre, Norway, Steamrunner and Akira to be designs of that era.
The 'new battlefleet' idea as a whole from the conversion I got between Sisko and his officers was put on the back-burner along with the Defiant.
SISKO: Desperate times breed desperate measures, Major. Five years ago, Starfleet began exploring the possibility of building a new class of starship. This ship would have no families, no science labs, no luxuries of any kind. It was designed for one purpose only, to fight and defeat the Borg. The Defiant was the prototype, the first ship in what would have been a new Federation battle fleet.
DAX: So what happened?
SISKO: The Borg threat became less urgent. Also, some design flaws cropped up during the ship's shakedown cruise, so Starfleet decided to abandon the project.
As you can see... the Defiant was stated to be the 'first ship in what would have been a new Federation battle fleet', but since the Borg threat became less urgent, and design flaws popped up, the entire project was abandoned.
If the battle-fleet existed, wouldn't he structure his response accordingly?
The Ambassador class for example comes from the pre TNG era which is 20 years before the Galaxy class came into the picture.
I could see the Sabre, Norway, Steamrunner and Akira to be designs of that era.
The 'new battlefleet' idea as a whole from the conversion I got between Sisko and his officers was put on the back-burner along with the Defiant.
SISKO: Desperate times breed desperate measures, Major. Five years ago, Starfleet began exploring the possibility of building a new class of starship. This ship would have no families, no science labs, no luxuries of any kind. It was designed for one purpose only, to fight and defeat the Borg. The Defiant was the prototype, the first ship in what would have been a new Federation battle fleet.
DAX: So what happened?
SISKO: The Borg threat became less urgent. Also, some design flaws cropped up during the ship's shakedown cruise, so Starfleet decided to abandon the project.
As you can see... the Defiant was stated to be the 'first ship in what would have been a new Federation battle fleet', but since the Borg threat became less urgent, and design flaws popped up, the entire project was abandoned.
If the battle-fleet existed, wouldn't he structure his response accordingly?
''... in what WOULD HAVE BEEN the new Federation battle-fleet''.
Well, it's possible to deduce from this alone that the battle-fleet prospect never panned out.
SF merely built new classes of ships such as the Intrepid and Sovereign in the same time period, but ultimately, the 'battle-fleet' as such never saw the light of day because the Borg were not an imminent threat.
Besides, the Defiant was not a complete dud... it demonstrated effectiveness in battling the Dominion bug ships whereas a Galaxy class couldn't make a dent.
Well, it's possible to deduce from this alone that the battle-fleet prospect never panned out.
SF merely built new classes of ships such as the Intrepid and Sovereign in the same time period, but ultimately, the 'battle-fleet' as such never saw the light of day because the Borg were not an imminent threat.
Besides, the Defiant was not a complete dud... it demonstrated effectiveness in battling the Dominion bug ships whereas a Galaxy class couldn't make a dent.
Well, it's not tough to figure out why we haven't seen the Defiant class all that often. During DS9, it was the only Defiant class ship seen with few exceptions like Valiant, because otherwise you've got confusion about what ship you're looking at. It wasn't until the Enterprise-D was a crash site on Veridian 3 that we started seeing Galaxy Class ships more often as parts of Starfleet Combat Forces.
Really?
When did we see a Galaxy class using only 1 phaser beam to kill the bug fighter?
I don't think we did.
Ds9 may have done it though.
But before that, the Defiant apparently sported technology that made it's pulse phasers effective against the bugs when it was released into active service (which was only a short while after the Oddysey was destroyed).
That's less because of the Defiants' power, more because of Plot Strength/Plot Armor.
I wasn't saying that the Defiant was any more powerful than the Galaxy class.
More to the point, since it was originally designed to 'fight and defeat the Borg' (something at which it didn't really excel at in FC - then again, we've only seen the ship in action for a fraction of the time while the battle was nearing the end), the modified technologies onboard were probably responsible for allowing pulse phasers (and later on phaser beams) to be effective against Dominion ships.
My point was... the entire project was 'abandoned' at least a few years before Sisko used the Defiant to go search for the Founders, resulting in SF NOT upgrading the Oddysey with these technologies before 'the Search'.
If the project was not abandoned, or if SF was more vigilant, then it's possible the Oddysey might have survived the conflict with the bug ships (though I'm sure the battle would have gone bad either way because the writers wanted for the Oddysey to be destroyed).
The Defiant itself was the abandoned project. They were still working on newer, better weapons (these were first mentioned in BOBW itself). The Quantum torpedoes, pulse phasers, etc were all still being worked on, which is why the Sovereign also had them (but more powerful).
The Odyssey didn't have them because it's a bit harder to retrofit older vessels with new stuff than it is to just build new vessels with the new stuff.
The Odyssey didn't have them because it's a bit harder to retrofit older vessels with new stuff than it is to just build new vessels with the new stuff.
To make things more complicated, one of 7 of 9's chaos to order personalities was a woman in Starfleet that was assimilated back in 2362.
Of course, but those advanced weapons WERE developed by the time the Defiant was originally made.
Geordi in BoBW mentioned at least 12 months for implementation of the new weapons systems, while Shelby stated that SF was projecting 14 months... "The Search" happened roughly 4 years after that dialogue statement which means the Defiant would sport the tech in question most definitely.
Retrofitting older vessels isn't really too hard as evident by the Lakota (an 80 years old design which essentially became a match for a Defiant class ship).
The Galaxy class would be even easier to modify because it's far newer.
Case in point, it's easier to think that SF never got around to retrofitting the Oddysey because they got lax.
Borg weren't an imminent threat and the Dominion was not met on a formal basis by then (even Ds9 as a station was pitiful and had minimal defenses by the time of 'The Search').
They had the time to do it before meeting the Dominon... and it would appear, they did not.
Uhm... no.
The Lakota didn't have the ablative hull armor.
It was noted in the episode that the Lakota's weapons were upgraded and the ship carried quantum torpedoes among other things.
It came out evenly matched to the Defiant (both ships used phasers only for combat).
In fact, one might even venture a guess that the Lakota might have been slightly superior in shield strength because the Defiant was able to hold out that long because of the armor (though, that thing can't take more than a hit or two)... and without it, it might have lost.
The Lakota didn't have the ablative hull armor.
It was noted in the episode that the Lakota's weapons were upgraded and the ship carried quantum torpedoes among other things.
It came out evenly matched to the Defiant (both ships used phasers only for combat).
In fact, one might even venture a guess that the Lakota might have been slightly superior in shield strength because the Defiant was able to hold out that long because of the armor (though, that thing can't take more than a hit or two)... and without it, it might have lost.
You're right, it was the Defiant that had the armor and they were surprised they had it. I misremembered.
Being stocked with new torpedo types is a tad easier than refitting the energy weapon systems, I'd think.
Which just highlights the Defiants' own plot armor. Its' strength depends on the writers' will, so it can either be a powerful warship in no danger or on par with other easily-destroyed ships depending on the writers.
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