Borg Insignia. When? Why? and Where?

[Borg451]

for those unfamiliar this is the logo of the Borg
http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/en/images/3/38/Borg-symbol.jpg

my question is...

When did this first appear.. and when else after.

Why do the Borg have a symbol? do they need it? is it actually just the sign of Lore's Borg.

and where is it seen? just in Lore's Command Center or on Borg ships/buildings?




(also where is the exterior to Lores command center filmed.. its Zordons one too right?)

 

[Deks]

Actually that insignia appeared in Q, Who episode on one of the walls when the away team found the 'borg nursery'.

 

[Borg451]

Actually that insignia appeared in Q, Who episode on one of the walls when the away team found the 'borg nursery'.

o rly?

what is that site you all use that has screen shots of trek... can someone link up that image?

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Actually that insignia appeared in Q, Who episode on one of the walls when the away team found the 'borg nursery'.

o rly?

what is that site you all use that has screen shots of trek... can someone link up that image?

http://www.trekcore.com/ is the best site for screen shots.

 

[GeorgeKirk]

The first time I ever actually saw that symbol was in an old Lincoln Enterprises catalog that came out sometime in TNG's early 4th season. BOBW was still very fresh on everyone's minds, so of course the catalog had all kinds of Borg logo merchandise. The next time I saw Q-Who after that, I noticed the logo on the Borg ship. It was pretty small and not prominently featured; very much a blink-and-you-miss-it kind of thing. I doubt seriously that it was originally intended to be the "Borg logo". What probably happened was that Majel or whoever was running Lincoln Enterprises at the time wanted to cash in on the spike in Borg popularity that the BOBW duology brought, and since that symbol was the only thing that could even be remotely construed as an insignia for the Borg, that was what they chose to stamp on the merchandise.

 

[Borg451]

Cool. Lets discuss why the Borg might have an insignia.. given their aims..

the in universe reason.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Cool. Lets discuss why the Borg might have an insignia.. given their aims..

the in universe reason.

It was the symbol of the 'original' race that created the Borg.

 

[Sector 7]

Cool. Lets discuss why the Borg might have an insignia.. given their aims..

the in universe reason.

They wouldn't. They have no need for a symbol, as symbols are a representation of individualism. The borg are totally against individualism. "You will become part of the collective." The individual becomes part of the group hive-mind. As such, there is no need for a symbol to identify a particular group, or even the group as a whole.

I took some heat in an earlier thread about Federation flags/symbols, where I suggested that other planetary societies may not use such forms of heraldry. Their basic argument was that it's posted on a certain website that planet A has a certain symbol... end of discussion.

I still believe that some societies may not share OUR need to have such flags or symbols. In fact, some may be opposed to the idea as their cultures may not see the need for such trinkets.

 

[stupidname]

Actually that insignia appeared in Q, Who episode on one of the walls when the away team found the 'borg nursery'.

I'm not really sure how we're supposed to link to trekcore imaged but...

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s2/2x16/qwho228.jpg

let me know if that's wrong!

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Cool. Lets discuss why the Borg might have an insignia.. given their aims..

the in universe reason.

The Borg believe themselves to be assisting "lesser" beings achieve perfection through assimilation. They are in their own warped thinking extending a helping hand to those less fortunate, which may be what inspired the hand insignia.

They wouldn't. They have no need for a symbol, as symbols are a representation of individualism.

They expended effort to capture Picard so they could present him as a symbol of humanity under the Collective, so I don't think they are above using symbolism when it serves their needs.

I also disagree with the assertion that symbols are purely a representation of individualism. Some can be, but given the number of symbols that represented groups that demanded conformity and service to the state or the people as a whole over the individual, I don't think that's an accurate statement.

 

[Balthier the Great]

I don't think symbols are representations of individuality. They're the opposite. Every symbol we have is a representation of a group, not a person. The flag represents your country, the cross, star of david, or cresent represents your religious group, various millitary insignia represent your groups within the military. Even heralry symbols represent families, not individuals.

If you're American, you've probably heard about the "Obama doesn't were a flag pin" thing. He chose not to wear the symbol of America, so people questioned his loyalty and patriotism.

Anyway, I'd guess that symbol was the symbol of the society that produced the Borg. I suspect that they were somewhat utopianist and wanted other people to experience the Borg way of life.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Anyway, I'd guess that symbol was the symbol of the society that produced the Borg.

Why dont you just steal my idea.

 

[Gotham Central]

Cool. Lets discuss why the Borg might have an insignia.. given their aims..

the in universe reason.

The Borg believe themselves to be assisting "lesser" beings achieve perfection through assimilation. They are in their own warped thinking extending a helping hand to those less fortunate, which may be what inspired the hand insignia.

They wouldn't. They have no need for a symbol, as symbols are a representation of individualism.

They expended effort to capture Picard so they could present him as a symbol of humanity under the Collective, so I don't think they are above using symbolism when it serves their needs.

I also disagree with the assertion that symbols are purely a representation of individualism. Some can be, but given the number of symbols that represented groups that demanded conformity and service to the state or the people as a whole over the individual, I don't think that's an accurate statement.

I actually think that you're both right and wrong. Symbols can represent collectivity but in doing so they represent individuality. Symbols are not ususally for the members of a group but to help identify those who are NOT part of the group. Those wearing the American Flag, the Swastika, The cross the hammer and Scicle, the Star of David etc.... are displaying their loyalty to said group to the uninitiated. They are to help fellow travellers identify who is friend and potentially who is foe. If everyone was a member of the same collective, there would really be no need for a symbol since it would be understood, by virtue of existance, that everyone was a member.

Think of it this way....is there a symbol for HUMAN? Would we really need one since right now the are no non-humans around that would require us to need a seperate and distinct identity.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I actually think that you're both right and wrong. Symbols can represent collectivity but in doing so they represent individuality. Symbols are not ususally for the members of a group but to help identify those who are NOT part of the group. Those wearing the American Flag, the Swastika, The cross the hammer and Scicle, the Star of David etc.... are displaying their loyalty to said group to the uninitiated. They are to help fellow travellers identify who is friend and potentially who is foe. If everyone was a member of the same collective, there would really be no need for a symbol since it would be understood, by virtue of existance, that everyone was a member.

The Borg would use symbols not for their personal benefit, but for the benefit of those who they wish to assimilate. The hand reaching out on a background of piping and circuitry represents assistance through assimilation (in my interpretation at least).

Think of it this way....is there a symbol for HUMAN? Would we really need one since right now the are no non-humans around that would require us to need a seperate and distinct identity.

There are many symbols for human, mostly revolving around the basic stick figure and up from there to more detailed drawings. We've used them for representing ourselves on space probes and deep space radio signals in case it should ever be found/heard by an alien society, we use them to communicate with high-functioning animals, and we use them to represent organizations whose primary purpose is to appeal to or support basic human needs.

 

[Sector 7]

Cool. Lets discuss why the Borg might have an insignia.. given their aims..

the in universe reason.

The Borg believe themselves to be assisting "lesser" beings achieve perfection through assimilation. They are in their own warped thinking extending a helping hand to those less fortunate, which may be what inspired the hand insignia.

They wouldn't. They have no need for a symbol, as symbols are a representation of individualism.

They expended effort to capture Picard so they could present him as a symbol of humanity under the Collective, so I don't think they are above using symbolism when it serves their needs.

I also disagree with the assertion that symbols are purely a representation of individualism. Some can be, but given the number of symbols that represented groups that demanded conformity and service to the state or the people as a whole over the individual, I don't think that's an accurate statement.

I actually think that you're both right and wrong. Symbols can represent collectivity but in doing so they represent individuality. Symbols are not ususally for the members of a group but to help identify those who are NOT part of the group. Those wearing the American Flag, the Swastika, The cross the hammer and Scicle, the Star of David etc.... are displaying their loyalty to said group to the uninitiated. They are to help fellow travellers identify who is friend and potentially who is foe. If everyone was a member of the same collective, there would really be no need for a symbol since it would be understood, by virtue of existance, that everyone was a member.

Think of it this way....is there a symbol for HUMAN? Would we really need one since right now the are no non-humans around that would require us to need a seperate and distinct identity.

This was my point. Thank you for stating it better than I did.

 

[P Tom]

The 1992 TNG trading cards has a card for the Borg insignia with the following description,

"Resembling a great red claw over a background of circuitry, the symbol of the Borg is as mysterious as the race it represents. The Borg symbol may possibly define an amalgam of living tissue with computer circuits, as the Borg are believed to be a race of cybernetic organisms..."

 

[Anwar]

Also, one of the trailers for First Contact had the Borg Insignia.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Well, it was definitely on the Borg ship in "Best Of Both Worlds" - I was given one off of the wall by a member of the production team with the remark "Someone will steal these, so one may as well go to somebody who's going to appreciate it."

It was cool, hand-made art - black artboard with hand-drafted "circuitry" in gold paint-pen and some kind of adhesive paper/plastic (like contact paper) in dark red - sorry, I'm not a graphic artist and can't tell you exactly what the stuff was.

 

[Unicron]

It was featured prominently in "Descent" as well.

 

[WalkinMan]

The 1992 TNG trading cards has a card for the Borg insignia with the following description,

"Resembling a great red claw over a background of circuitry, the symbol of the Borg is as mysterious as the race it represents. The Borg symbol may possibly define an amalgam of living tissue with computer circuits, as the Borg are believed to be a race of cybernetic organisms..."

That's an interesting description. I like the idea of expanding the Borg mystique to something else, a whole 'rich' history we haven't seen on Trek yet...