Spoilers Boom grade and discussion thread

[Evil Robert]

By and large I enjoyed the episode, though I wasn't really expecting a bottle episode this early in the season (bottle episodes just feel like an episode 9 or 10 just before the finale thing to me).

Random thoughts:

Slice was effing annoying. Curly Sue level annoying.

Loved Moffat calling back to previous episodes. Whether these Easter Eggs will lead to anything or just there for funsies, I don't actually mind either way. Moffat was always at his best with one-off episodes.

The episode should've been called 'Kiss Kiss'

I'm thoroughly convinced Susan is going to return now. How? Who knows! Lol

The return of the quarry! Even if slightly more set based then the old Welsh ones painted red, but having the episode take place in a hole in the ground made me kinda happy! Lol I'm sure it was intentional (like most Moffat things)

 

[Evil Robert]

Damn Ncuti nailed the acting this episode.

I figure the writing felt like it was kinda Capaldi-ish era (which makes sense as that was when Moffat last wrote the Doctor).

And due to episodes being filmed in advance, and not to mention so early in Ncuti's run, the writers are still learning the Doctor's voice that Ncuti brings (I tend to think most NuWho Doctors only really find their voice in their second season).

But with the writing as it was, Ncutu turned it around and instead of doing something bombastic and loud like Capaldi, they gave us a much more gentler and lyrical touch

I'm liking it

 

[Mr. Adventure]

It's possible Ruby could still have been with the Doctor for six or seven months and this is still her first alien planet. After all, Rose's first alien planet was New Earth, and that was in the second season.

I had considered that but it seemed unlikely though I didn't remember that being the case with Rose. I do need to do a proper rewatch from the beginning (2005) sometime, it's just my backlog is so f'n huge!

Calling it: Mundy's coming back, and not Sethu as a different character.

After Sunday and Mundy, the Doctor's next companion will be Tuesday Weld.

I'm thoroughly convinced Susan is going to return now. How? Who knows! Lol

As a Twist!

 

[The Wormhole]

I had considered that but it seemed unlikely though I didn't remember that being the case with Rose.

It was a common complaint back when the first season aired that they never went anywhere other than Earth or space stations orbiting Earth. Indeed, at the start of The Empty Child, it's even stated in dialogue that the Doctor and Rose never go anywhere other than Earth.

 

[1001001]

The first episodes were kind of silly fun. This one really felt like The Doctor.

9

 

[Captrek]

Wow, Doctor Who is really wearing its politics on its sleeve, isn’t it? This episode openly mocks faith and “thoughts and prayers,” Space Babies had unsubtle commentary on abortion and childcare, and we’ve had LGBT characters that no sympathetic in-universe character has any issue with.

 

[DigificWriter]

That's just a regular companion in jeopardy moment. Not a fake out.

No, it wasn't, because Ruby was actually dead, and yet there was zero tension because it was obvious that Fifteen was somehow going to resurrect her.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Wow, Doctor Who is really wearing its politics on its sleeve, isn’t it? This episode openly mocks faith and “thoughts and prayers,” Space Babies had unsubtle commentary on abortion and childcare, and we’ve had LGBT characters that no sympathetic in-universe character has any issue with.

I think it was trying to make a point about empty faith of which a banal "thoughts and prayers" is often a part especially after a tragedy.

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Why on earth would a sympathetic character have an issue with LGBT characters?

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Wow, Doctor Who is really wearing its politics on its sleeve, isn’t it? This episode openly mocks faith and “thoughts and prayers,” Space Babies had unsubtle commentary on abortion and childcare, and we’ve had LGBT characters that no sympathetic in-universe character has any issue with.

But that's what faith is. The "magic word" that alsolves someone of the need for evidence or proof. you might not agree with the decriptive, but it is accurate.

 

[Captrek]

Why on earth would a sympathetic character have an issue with LGBT characters?

Like I said, that’s a political position. There are a lot of people who consider themselves sympathetic who fight acceptance of LGBTs. If you want to appeal to that audience, you include characters they can relate to. When only villains take that position, DW is picking a side.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Like I said, that’s a political position. There are a lot of people who consider themselves sympathetic who fight acceptance of LGBTs. If you want to appeal to that audience, you include characters they can relate to. When only villains take that position, DW is picking a side.

You didn't answer the question, you avoided it. Why would a sympathetic character have a problem with LGBTQIA+? Acceptence of people as they are is not taking a side. It's not being a dick. Generally the Doctor and companions tend to not be dicks.

 

[Chakoteya]

<snip>
Space Babies had unsubtle commentary on abortion and childcare, <snip>

Was it? Passed me by. I considered it more a Brave New World / overpopulation thing. You know, we've got enough people now, turn the machines off and come home.

 

[Captrek]

Why would a sympathetic character have a problem with LGBTQIA+?

Because half the potential audience does and you want to include characters they can relate to?

 

[Captaindemotion]

I have been looking forward most of all to the Moffat episode and it didn’t disappoint. It wasn’t in the league of Blink or the like (but what is?!) but was easily my favourite DW since he left.

Ncuti is really growing into the role, albeit that it may be because SM wrote him much like he wrote Smith or Capaldi, probably my favourite modern Doctors. Oddly though, though, I can more easily imagine Tennant stuck on that landmine for this episode than either of them.

I have to admit that a lot of the references and deep cuts passed me by as did the actress playing Munday until I looked here. Ah well, there’s an excuse for a rewatch now.

 

[Captrek]

Was it? Passed me by. I considered it more a Brave New World / overpopulation thing. You know, we've got enough people now, turn the machines off and come home.

It’s against the law to “turn off the birthing machine” but the same law that mandates their birth abandons them after they’re born. When Jocelyn says about that, “It’s a strange planet,” Ruby responds, “Not that strange.” I.e., the same thing is happening on Earth, except here the “birthing machines” are people. It’s pretty harsh commentary.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Because half the potential audience does and you want to include characters they can relate to?

Do you want the Doctor to rant against trans people and morally condem gay people to feel better then?

 

[DigificWriter]

Wow, Doctor Who is really wearing its politics on its sleeve, isn’t it? This episode openly mocks faith and “thoughts and prayers,” Space Babies had unsubtle commentary on abortion and childcare, and we’ve had LGBT characters that no sympathetic in-universe character has any issue with.

Like I said, that’s a political position. There are a lot of people who consider themselves sympathetic who fight acceptance of LGBTs. If you want to appeal to that audience, you include characters they can relate to. When only villains take that position, DW is picking a side.

Because half the potential audience does and you want to include characters they can relate to?

You need to rethink your life.

 

[Captrek]

Do you want the Doctor to rant against trans people and morally condem gay people to feel better then?

I didn’t say it should be the Doctor. I didn’t even necessarily say it should happen at all, just that not doing it is indeed taking a political stand.

If you want to try to appeal to everyone, include characters (probably including the Doctor and Ruby) that progressives can relate to and also characters that conservatives can relate to. New characters are introduced every week, so there’s plenty of opportunity to do this.

If you have nothing but contempt for conservatives and don’t want sympathetic conservatives in your entertainment, that’s fine. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong to like that. By excluding sympathetic conservatives and deliberately alienating half the potential audience, it is indeed picking a political side, but maybe that’s a good thing as long as it’s picking the correct side.

 

[Captrek]

You need to rethink your life.

Back at you. If you know anything of my posting history, you know I’m no conservative. I can still observe that DW is picking a side without being on the other side.

 

[EnderAKH]

At least in america, 80% of adults favor laws that would protect LGBTQ+ people against discrimination in jobs, public accommodations, and housing. 66% of Republicans favor nondiscrimination provisions for LGBTQ+ people, per Gallup. Being against LGBTQ+ people isn't so much a side as much as a small vocal minority on the wrong side of history.