Blu ray

[The Laughing Vulcan]

The thing is that DVD players are dying a death. Modern machines lack the functionality, build quality and features of machines that were released 10 years ago. People want cheap and disposable when it comes to DVD players, paying £20 or £30 where they would have paid £100. And when every Blu-ray player plays DVD anyway, and with progressive playback as standard, HDMI connections, decent upscaling, the standard sale nowadays is to buy an HD TV and optional Blu-ray player (decent ones now retail at the magic £100 mark where the decent DVD players used to sit), even if all you're going to use it for is your DVD collection.

 

[Lance]

Yeah, ultimately it does come down to the price point. If they can figure out a way to produce Blu Rays for dirt cheap, so that selling them dirt cheap still turns a decent return of investment, then Blu Rays have a future. But that brings us back to TNG-R having been a huge investment for CBS, banking as they were on similar profit margins to how the series had previously sold on DVD a decade ago, but that the sales figures didn't meet the projected targets, so the Blu Rays made a loss. It's very easy to fans to say ''Oh, but they'll make it into profit eventually''; It's much harder to justify that to shareholders (''Okay guys, don't worry now, I know we've just pissed away all your money on a loss, but we'll reap the benefits in a decade once online streaming kicks in... wait guys, where are you all going?!'').

So yeah. And even *if* (big if) DS9 and VOY make it to Blu Ray in some condensed cheap-ass form using SD upscales and spit glue, the consumers will inevitably be disappointed by the fact that they aren't TOS-R and TNG-R style upgrades. It won't matter that rescanning all the materials in HD would've cost an arm and a leg so the best way to make a sellable product is a bare-bones-basic release, people will still say, ''Well, what am I buying High Definition for when the show on my discs is barely above 1990s era broadcast quality?''. It's okay to sell that product for broadcast on Netflix, but 'collectors' of physical media demand a higher standard than that on prinicpal.

 

[Relayer1]

I think there are more Blu-ray players out there than you give credit for. There have been 87 miilion PS3's sold.

That's a bit more than the population of Britain and Ireland in the whole world. Not exactly saturation.

If, as the market contracts, entry level Bluray pllayers are marketed as 'Multiplayer' disc machines and plain old DVD players vanish, there is a chance the format might thrive.

 

[Kemaiku]

...and I would not hold your breath for any 4K releases.

I imagine the only Trek 4K releases we will see, will be the Abrams films.

I know, I just meant the oldverse will not be getting even a full 1080 treatment nevermind anything better.

 

[Lance]

I think there are more Blu-ray players out there than you give credit for. There have been 87 miilion PS3's sold.

That's a bit more than the population of Britain and Ireland in the whole world. Not exactly saturation.

If, as the market contracts, entry level Bluray pllayers are marketed as 'Multiplayer' disc machines and plain old DVD players vanish, there is a chance the format might thrive.

I do think this type of marketing helps. As silly as it sounds, even today not everybody recognises the distinction of Blu Ray players being able to play DVD discs. A similar problem blighted the marketing of the WiiU in the beginning. Consumers sometimes need to have these sorts of things told to them in a plain, understandable way.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

The harsh truth is that, although there are some fans who say things like ''They owe it to the fans for our loyalty to put everything out on Blu Ray disc!!!!!'', that's complete bulltwinkle. CBS owes us nothing. Paramount owes us nothing. Star Trek is a financial property first and a piece of art second, and if the former can't fund the latter, then CBS won't risk it in the first place.

Many of these fans who feel this way should be watching the fan productions, or even better, taking business classes so that they can understand what supply and demand is.

 

[Relayer1]

or even better, taking business classes so that they can understand what supply and demand is.

As opposed to 'I demand that you supply me with DS9 on Bluray' ?

 

[Shaka Zulu]

^More so that they understand how and why things are put on video, yes.

 

[eyeresist]

The thing is that DVD players are dying a death. Modern machines lack the functionality, build quality and features of machines that were released 10 years ago. People want cheap and disposable when it comes to DVD players, paying £20 or £30 where they would have paid £100.

Your first sentence doesn't match the next two. Unless a large number of consumers feel compelled to switch to blu-ray, the low price and wide availability of DVD players should have the effect of extending the viability of DVD, not reducing it.

(I don't know about the decline of "functionality and features" in DVD players either. Most people don't use anything fancier than basic navigation and the subtitles button.)

And even *if* (big if) DS9 and VOY make it to Blu Ray in some condensed cheap-ass form using SD upscales and spit glue, the consumers will inevitably be disappointed by the fact that they aren't TOS-R and TNG-R style upgrades. It won't matter that rescanning all the materials in HD would've cost an arm and a leg so the best way to make a sellable product is a bare-bones-basic release, people will still say, ''Well, what am I buying High Definition for when the show on my discs is barely above 1990s era broadcast quality?''. It's okay to sell that product for broadcast on Netflix, but 'collectors' of physical media demand a higher standard than that on prinicpal.

My feeling is that the market understands these issues, and will accept that they won't get anything better than basic upscale on blu-ray. They'd rather have that than nothing.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Your first sentence doesn't match the next two. Unless a large number of consumers feel compelled to switch to blu-ray, the low price and wide availability of DVD players should have the effect of extending the viability of DVD, not reducing it.

(I don't know about the decline of "functionality and features" in DVD players either. Most people don't use anything fancier than basic navigation and the subtitles button.)

All technology goes through a similar cycle of expansion, proliferation, and decline. 20 years ago, I could have bought a VHS recorder with S-VHS capability, dual tuners, jog shuttle, multi-event timer, videoplus, subtitle capability, and a hundred other things, and it would have been built to last. Today, if you still have a VHS collection, and some people do, the most you can hope for is a cheap VHS Player, which will play your tapes, rewind and fast forward, and that's it. It won't even record.

The same thing with CD players. When the main technology is personal mp3 players, personal CD players are limited to the £20 models that play discs through headphones and that's it. 15 years ago, there were Sony discmans, compact, stylish, and feature packed. I could say the same thing about tape decks. I bought a hi-fi ten years ago, radio, tape and CD, all quality stuff. I had to replace it this year, but they don't build tape decks into hi-fis anymore. You might get tape players in boomboxes, but they don't record anymore. It's called progress.

DVD players will die, and die very quickly as Blu-ray plays DVDs as standard. If you want to watch DVDs, you'll just go into a shop, pick up a £40 Blu-ray player and that's it. You won't notice any difference, and the manufacturers will probably drop the appelation, and just call them players, or media players, or disc players seeing as they play CDs as well.

 

[Kor]

Sony's lower-end blu ray players are pretty affordable at around $60-something USD (or cheaper if you find one on sale).

But maybe I have an outdated idea of what constitutes "affordable" when it comes to electronics.

Kor

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

It's already happening. Went to the supermarket today and saw an "LG Blu-ray / DVD Player" on the shelf for £40.

 

[Admiral Bear]

I bought a Blu-ray player in Currys for £60 back in 2009. It didn't last very long, but it was region free for both Blu and DVD, so it had its uses for a while.

Standard Blu-ray players aren't much good for all these new fangled 4K TVs that are being forced on the public by the major manufacturers, so once 4K Blu-ray players hit the market next year, you'll be able to buy a 1080p Blu-ray player for £20 just as you could by DVD players for £20 back in 2003.

Physical media and its players are all but dead in the water anyway.

 

[Kor]

^ Yes, but streaming video still isn't quite up to par, in comparison to physical media.
I'm keeping my blu ray player (which is also the same device I use to stream Netflix), and I'm not planning on getting a 4K TV anytime soon, because you need a humongous TV for the human eye to really see any difference between HD and UHD.

Kor

 

[BillJ]

I bought a Blu-ray player in Currys for £60 back in 2009. It didn't last very long, but it was region free for both Blu and DVD, so it had its uses for a while.

I bought a Magnavox player late in 2009 that still plays beautifully.

Standard Blu-ray players aren't much good for all these new fangled 4K TVs that are being forced on the public by the major manufacturers...

I have a 4K TV (50") and Blu-ray's play beautifully.

 

[Admiral Bear]

I dare say standard Blu-ray looks beautiful on your 4K TV, but at best, what are you actually seeing? 1080p upscaled to some sort of pseudo 4K?

Also your player won't play 4K Blu-ray discs when they eventually come to market en masse.

I think there's no better time than now to pick up a standard HD 50" or bigger. The prices are so low. Just seen a Sharp 50" for £299. Not smart, but I wouldn't care. I picked up one of the last 50" LG plasma sets last year for £450. Was a bargain at the time. Lovely telly though. Miles better than LCD which, being a sports fan, I truly hate with a passion.

 

[BillJ]

I dare say standard Blu-ray looks beautiful on your 4K TV, but at best, what are you actually seeing? 1080p upscaled to some sort of pseudo 4K?

Also your player won't play 4K Blu-ray discs when they eventually come to market en masse.

I started buying TV's and content players in the late-80's. Of course my TV is upscaling 1080p material to 4K. It does a beautiful job of it.

I plan on getting a 4K player for 4K discs. Thanks for the concern though.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

I dare say standard Blu-ray looks beautiful on your 4K TV, but at best, what are you actually seeing? 1080p upscaled to some sort of pseudo 4K?

Also your player won't play 4K Blu-ray discs when they eventually come to market en masse.

I think there's no better time than now to pick up a standard HD 50" or bigger. The prices are so low. Just seen a Sharp 50" for £299. Not smart, but I wouldn't care. I picked up one of the last 50" LG plasma sets last year for £450. Was a bargain at the time. Lovely telly though. Miles better than LCD which, being a sports fan, I truly hate with a passion.

Pardon me for asking, but are there really 4K Blu-Ray players?

 

[BillJ]

I dare say standard Blu-ray looks beautiful on your 4K TV, but at best, what are you actually seeing? 1080p upscaled to some sort of pseudo 4K?

Also your player won't play 4K Blu-ray discs when they eventually come to market en masse.

I think there's no better time than now to pick up a standard HD 50" or bigger. The prices are so low. Just seen a Sharp 50" for £299. Not smart, but I wouldn't care. I picked up one of the last 50" LG plasma sets last year for £450. Was a bargain at the time. Lovely telly though. Miles better than LCD which, being a sports fan, I truly hate with a passion.

Pardon me for asking, but are there really 4K Blu-Ray players?

http://www.wired.com/2015/09/samsung-4k-blu-ray-player/

 

[Relayer1]

It!s diminishing returns with new formats - nothing at all to VHS was a huge jump, VHS to DVD pretty major. DVD to Bluray is a noticable and worthwhile improvement to SOME (me included) but short of getting rather close to very large screens, 4K is less of a jump. I can ee it and want 4K, but I'd think a conventional Bluray well upscaled to 4K would be pretty damned good too. 10K is coming - will it really be worth it ?

Just out of interest, will a DVD on a suitable player fed to a UHD TV upscale to 4K, and if so, with that much approximated data, how does it look ?