Black hole nearby?
- Thread starter sto61
- Start date
A Black Hole the size and mass of the Narada might be a navigational hazard, but as long as they have noted the location, unless it drifted towards Earth or the Sol system in general, it would be there as a reminder of what happened.
Are those red matter -created black holes even permanent? None seemed to be left behind when the Narada first appeared near Klingon space, nor when Spock appeared. Or when Vulcan disappeared, for that matter.
OTOH, if they are permanent in the future end, and nonpermanent in the past end, that would probably nicely explain what happened to Voyager VI...
Timo Saloniemi
OTOH, if they are permanent in the future end, and nonpermanent in the past end, that would probably nicely explain what happened to Voyager VI...
Timo Saloniemi
Spock warped away from the Sol system into interstellar space, so the black hole is not a threat to Earth. Plus, with nothing else to feed it, a black hole with the mass of the Narada would quickly evaporate, so it really won't be much of a threat.
~FS
~FS
You do know that we don't know the amount of time it took to get from Earth to Vulcan, right? (It wasn't 3 minutes, btw). . .
~FS
Then again, a black hole with the mass of the Narada wouldn't suck in a fellow starship.
Apparently, black holes created by red matter have some unusual properties, such as the ability to capture a starship at a distance even when that starship can travel much faster than light. The event horizon for light is one thing our heroes don't have to worry about when facing a "normal" black hole. The event horizon for warp phenomena should lie much deeper in the gravity well, depending on the warp performance of the victim ship, and would probably be so deep that being captured by gravitic pull would not be an issue at all; the steepness of the gravity gradient down there would be the only thing to worry about, as it would tear the ship to pieces.
Timo Saloniemi
Well, let's not really go that deep into Trek Science.
It's quite possible that the Red Matter Black Hole may be created via a sharp increase in it's mass, perhaps via some unknown "subspace physics" unique to Red Matter.
It's also possible that a Starship, when caught in an extreme Gravity Well, cannot create a stable enough warp field, due to the distortion a Black Hole would cause to spacetime around the ship.
If the fabric of the universe is too distorted, how can a ship bend spacetime in a way that would breach Einstein?
Perhaps the explosion momentarily "pushes" spacetime into a more "normal" state, allowing the Enterprise to escape the gravity well? The Enterprise might not need to go to warp to get the necessary distance to move beyond the distortion.
Or I could be talking out my shuttle bay
It's quite possible that the Red Matter Black Hole may be created via a sharp increase in it's mass, perhaps via some unknown "subspace physics" unique to Red Matter.
It's also possible that a Starship, when caught in an extreme Gravity Well, cannot create a stable enough warp field, due to the distortion a Black Hole would cause to spacetime around the ship.
If the fabric of the universe is too distorted, how can a ship bend spacetime in a way that would breach Einstein?
Perhaps the explosion momentarily "pushes" spacetime into a more "normal" state, allowing the Enterprise to escape the gravity well? The Enterprise might not need to go to warp to get the necessary distance to move beyond the distortion.
Or I could be talking out my shuttle bay
Within the confines of Trek physics, you're doing just fine.
Really, Red Matter must be some sort of superscience mass multiplier, to explain what we see on screen. But since such things don't seem to exist in the natural world, perhaps it's an unstable state; i.e., once the Red Matter "decays", the singularity reverts to its natural mass, and evaporates in short order.
Are you getting this, Kurtzman and Orci? We're givin' ya pearls, here.
Red Matter ALSO appears to require high temperatures to "ignight", or start the process (Heat may provide enough energy to destabilize something that prevents the stuff from collapsing in on itself by generating mass.)
- They had to drill a hole through a planet's crust to deliver it.
- Spock's initial use of the substance was to eject it into the Supernova remnants of the Hobus Star, though too late to save Romulus.
- Weapons fire and explosions could also trigger it.
- They had to drill a hole through a planet's crust to deliver it.
- Spock's initial use of the substance was to eject it into the Supernova remnants of the Hobus Star, though too late to save Romulus.
- Weapons fire and explosions could also trigger it.
What I don’t understand is why they had to drill down to the center of the planet in order to destroy the planet. A black hole near the surface of the planet would consume the planet just as much as a black hole near the center of the planet.
The film doesn’t explain why Nero has to drill to the center of the planet, but I’m wondering if there are any interesting fanwanks on the subject.
Well, when Spock rams Nero's ship, and containment fails, the red matter sort of explodes in all directions. That'd probably dilute its devastating effect; a good way to contain the explosion would be to have it take place in a containment vessel. And considering that the bulk of the Narada didn't quite suffice for that, the only containment vessel with thick enough walls might be an underground well.
Of course, the Narada ramming did end with all the red matter converging into one deadly lump again. But if a lesser amount of the stuff had been used (as was done with the supernova and with Vulcan), the dispersion might have been bad news. There wouldn't have been excess red matter creating small black holes that attract further red matter that creates bigger holes that attract further red matter, etc.
Another possible fanwank is that red matter released in vacuum or a region of thin matter creates those transdimensional conduits, but yields minimal destructive effect; only red matter released so that it's surrounded from all sides by dense matter creates a conventional gravity well that efficiently destroys planets. The release of all the red matter in space barely sufficed for pulling Kirk's ship to the verge of doom; Nero would have wanted more oomph from a much smaller amount of the stuff.
Timo Saloniemi
Of course, the Narada ramming did end with all the red matter converging into one deadly lump again. But if a lesser amount of the stuff had been used (as was done with the supernova and with Vulcan), the dispersion might have been bad news. There wouldn't have been excess red matter creating small black holes that attract further red matter that creates bigger holes that attract further red matter, etc.
Another possible fanwank is that red matter released in vacuum or a region of thin matter creates those transdimensional conduits, but yields minimal destructive effect; only red matter released so that it's surrounded from all sides by dense matter creates a conventional gravity well that efficiently destroys planets. The release of all the red matter in space barely sufficed for pulling Kirk's ship to the verge of doom; Nero would have wanted more oomph from a much smaller amount of the stuff.
Timo Saloniemi
Well, both the collission (which produced and explosion, aha heat, as well as friction) and drilling into the planet tell me it's probably thermal in nature.
High temperatures set it off.
They probably drill into Vulcan so that they can ignitght the Red Matter via heat without using missiles or phasers, and to ensure that the whole of Vulcan could be destroyed at once.
High temperatures set it off.
They probably drill into Vulcan so that they can ignitght the Red Matter via heat without using missiles or phasers, and to ensure that the whole of Vulcan could be destroyed at once.
