Biggest problem with "Voyager" is that they didn't really take any chances.

[Tracy Trek]

^And unlike people who are critical of Voyager for the Starfleet/Maquis tension not lasting that long. I actually think there were flashes of now and again. When Janeway was incapacitated in Twisted, Chakotay and Tuvok were close to butting heads, right?

 

[Sophie74656]

^And unlike people who are critical of Voyager for the Starfleet/Maquis tension not lasting that long. I actually think there were flashes of now and again. When Janeway was incapacitated in Twisted, Chakotay and Tuvok were close to butting heads, right?

There were a couple of times when they butted heads. I thought that dynamic was well done. Subtle hints that maybe he wqs still ticked off at Tuvok for the whole spy thing

 

[fireproof78]

Completely agree with this. Thrust into the situation as they were any sane person would realize they have to work together to survive. What will fighting accomplish? They're still stuck in the DQ facing unknown dangers

Because human beings are known for their completely rationale behavior?

 

[Sophie74656]

Because human beings are known for their completely rationale behavior?

The majority of people are rational even in our world today. It's usually a select few that cause trouble for the rest.

We are told many times in Trek that people in that time think a different way. They have different values and different concerns.

 

[MacLeod]

Completely agree with this. Thrust into the situation as they were any sane person would realize they have to work together to survive. What will fighting accomplish? They're still stuck in the DQ facing unknown dangers

I don't think the argument is that they wouldn't work together but rather how they would work together. In many given situations you will have multiple views on how to resolve that situation And perhaps the show could have made more use of differing view points on how to resolve a situation.

 

[Tracy Trek]

There were a couple of times when they butted heads. I thought that dynamic was well done. Subtle hints that maybe he wqs still ticked off at Tuvok for the whole spy thing

I believe there was absolutely still some tension in Investigations. Since they were trying to ferret out a spy from among the Maquis and didn't let him in on it.

 

[Sophie74656]

I don't think the argument is that they wouldn't work together but rather how they would work together. In many given situations you will have multiple views on how to resolve that situation And perhaps the show could have made more use of differing view points on how to resolve a situation.

Starfleet is not a democracy

 

[fireproof78]

The majority of people are rational even in our world today. It's usually a select few that cause trouble for the rest.

We are told many times in Trek that people in that time think a different way. They have different values and different concerns.

And we are shown many times, and commented upon, that humanity still has some of its baser instincts. For all the discussion of the evolution of humanity, there are episodes which showcase human beings under duress dealing with things in a similar way to contemporary humans, from TOS, to DS9 and ENT.

Also, the majority of our people in our world are not thrown 70k lightyears from home. How would that impact, say, an aircraft carrier crew, that was transported that far away?

 

[Prax]

They would still be professionals in a work oriented hierarchical environment. I can tell you how they wouldn't act. I haven't seen Beyond, but the way Kirk, Uhura, Spock, McCoy, Scottie, and others act in 09 and Into Darkness would never happen in the military. It's not even exaggerated. It's outlandish. The Voyager crew would behave similarly to the TNG crew, or any of the others. I've heard people say, including Jammer I believe, that the quarreling between Reed and Major what's his face was juvenile, and not beweevable. These people aren't in Junior High, they're running a starship.

 

[fireproof78]

They would still be professionals in a work oriented hierarchical environment. I can tell you how they wouldn't act. I haven't seen Beyond, but the way Kirk, Uhura, Spock, McCoy, Scottie, and others act in 09 and Into Darkness would never happen in the military. It's not even exaggerated. It's outlandish. The Voyager crew would behave similarly to the TNG crew, or any of the others. I've heard people say, including Jammer I believe, that the quarreling between Reed and Major what's his face was juvenile, and not beweevable. These people aren't in Junior High, they're running a starship.

No idea what 09 or Into Darkness has to do with this, and frankly, don't want to derail the thread.

Certainly, they would be professionals to a point. You're telling me that no strain would ever get to them? If so, then, honestly, I can see were we differ, because that breaks suspension of disbelief for me.

 

[KJY]

The episode Alliances (and, to a lesser extent, Prime Factors) actually set up a nice source of potential conflict between the maquis and Starfleet crews. Janeway was willing to risk everyone's lives upholding the prime directive and Chakotay told her that even though the Starfleet members of the crew might be willing to die for Starfleet principles, the maquis wouldn't. Pragmatism vs. Starfleet principles would've been an excellent source of ongoing conflict, but it was almost completely forgotten as soon as it was mentioned (and no, occasional lines of dialogue reminding people that the maquis exist at all don't count). We even got faux mock-up versions of the type on conflict that should've really happened at some point in Worst Case Scenario and Repression.

I wouldn't have had the two crews at each other's throats for all seven seasons, but maybe the first whole season. Put Chakotay in a Starfleet uniform in the season one finale instead of the premier maybe. For all the people saying how implausible ongoing conflict would be, keep in mind that is the challenge they set up for themselves when they made the show. The maquis were created to set up the premise for Voyager and the pilot told us they would be a big deal. The show could've been about a 100% Starfleet crew for all they were used.

To the show's credit, it did utilize the "lone ship struggling for survival" on occasion. Year of Hell showed us what ongoing battle damage would be like. Scorpion had the crew making a tenuous alliance with a hostile race and a serious conflict between the captain and first officer. The Void showed more tenuous alliances as well as supply issues. Then there's Equinox which showed us another crew having all the problems that Voyager somehow never had. It's not as if these issues were never hinted at at all.

 

[fireproof78]

Interesting point about The Equinox because it showcases two different reactions to a similar situation. Both are Starfleet crews, and both held to a similar standard and training. Yet, one captain opts to completely abandon his principles in favor a shortcut.

Almost like the strain of the journey was too much for him...

 

[MacLeod]

Starfleet is not a democracy

But the Maquis crew members didn't sign up to Starfleet, due to neccessity they had to group together with Starfleet. It's not unreasonable to think that some of those might not be that enthralled at that situation.

 

[Prax]

And some of them weren't

 

[Prax]

No idea what 09 or Into Darkness has to do with this, and frankly, don't want to derail the thread.

Certainly, they would be professionals to a point. You're telling me that no strain would ever get to them? If so, then, honestly, I can see were we differ, because that breaks suspension of disbelief for me.

They show SF officers bickering, arguing, quarreling...People don't act like that in real life in a military environment. And there is conflict in Voyager. It's just less exaggerated, and more realistic.

 

[at Quark's]

Also, the majority of our people in our world are not thrown 70k lightyears from home. How would that impact, say, an aircraft carrier crew, that was transported that far away?

Oh, I'd think there wouldn't be any longstanding feuds amongst the crew. They'd suffocate in seconds (or hours at most if they have protective gear on board), as aircraft carriers aren't usually that well equipped for long term space travel.

 

[Phil123]

There of course was some conflict/unhappiness shown, but not as much as there would realistically. And Seska turning out to be a Cardassian meant even she wasn't a Maquis.

The situations are hardly the same, but the reason the Maquis abandoned the Federation was to do with territorial borders/protection. When you look at territory conflicts in our world today, (which I won't name as I accept they are not the same and don't want to head the tread off in that direction) they have been going on for generations.

Many of the Maquis, especially the true believers, would not have integrated as seamlessly as portrayed in Voyager. There could have been so many interesting ideas explored. Political and moral discussions around territory negotiation and the tactics of the Marquis - that would have been great. I don't want them to have been at each other's necks, but some genuine intelligent conflicting viewpoints informing the characters and their behavior would have been good.

The difficulties in building trust between former (and in many ways current) enemies - Voyager could have been on of the most through provoking series yet, but instead it became the least.

 

[Sophie74656]

No idea what 09 or Into Darkness has to do with this, and frankly, don't want to derail the thread.

Certainly, they would be professionals to a point. You're telling me that no strain would ever get to them? If so, then, honestly, I can see were we differ, because that breaks suspension of disbelief for me.

There were episodes where they were under incredible stress, in DS9 as well as Voyager and they did keep it together. Off the top of my head the only time I can think of someone (who didn't have pre existing issues) really loosing it was Scientific Method when Janeway physically confronts the alien lady

 

[Sophie74656]

But the Maquis crew members didn't sign up to Starfleet, due to neccessity they had to group together with Starfleet. It's not unreasonable to think that some of those might not be that enthralled at that situation.

They agreed to function as starfleet officers. That's why they put on the uniforms. They agreed to follow the rules and regulations of the federation

 

[Phil123]

They agreed to function as starfleet officers. That's why they put on the uniforms. They agreed to follow the rules and regulations of the federation

They had little choice, and agreeing to something under the duress of their situation would be unlikely to lead to long term commitment to an organisation that was their enemy 2 days before.