Along with just butting heads i would imagine that its possible that Chakotay still has some resentment for Tuvok from infiltrating his crew under cover
Biggest problem with "Voyager" is that they didn't really take any chances.
- Thread starter Jayson1
- Start date
I recognize the scene, just wasn't following the commentary. I plan on rewatching the episode to get better context of what you're trying to say.
On Chakotay/Tuvok: I always felt that there was an underlying tension between the two of them. It seemed, certainly during the first couple of seasons, that they merely tolerated each other. By the end of the series there definitely was respect for one another but I think Chakotay, on a personal level, never forgave Tuvok for betraying him and the other Maquis.
And I can just see Tom replying, "Forget you, she'd kill me herself".
Absolutely!
I just ran across another criticism of Voyager on another site. The person said, "They were in a completely new area of space they had never been before, and suddenly everyone's speaking English". No trouble with the universal translator whatsoever".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did that not happen in every single version of Trek? Many times on TOS, TNG, DS9, ENT there were times they met someone they had never seen or heard of before. No problem with the universal translator. Even in the AQ.
My head canon is any species that has achieved warp drive has some kind of universal translator built into the communications system of their ship. No matter which quadrant.
This "everyone speaks English" happens on other sci-fi shows. In one of the novels connected to the show Stargate SG1, it was said the stargate had a universal translator built into it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did that not happen in every single version of Trek? Many times on TOS, TNG, DS9, ENT there were times they met someone they had never seen or heard of before. No problem with the universal translator. Even in the AQ.
My head canon is any species that has achieved warp drive has some kind of universal translator built into the communications system of their ship. No matter which quadrant.
This "everyone speaks English" happens on other sci-fi shows. In one of the novels connected to the show Stargate SG1, it was said the stargate had a universal translator built into it.
That's kind of a silly complaint. They speak English in the gamma quadrant, too. There is that episode where a giant bug gets stuck on B'elanna, and the Bug's compatriots come to rescue him and the universal translator won't work. The UT is a mystical mysterious technology that must be part of the ships systems, part of the com badge, part of the tricorder, and installed in everyone's brain or ears, depending on the episode.
I just ran across another criticism of Voyager on another site. The person said, "They were in a completely new area of space they had never been before, and suddenly everyone's speaking English". No trouble with the universal translator whatsoever".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did that not happen in every single version of Trek? Many times on TOS, TNG, DS9, ENT there were times they met someone they had never seen or heard of before. No problem with the universal translator. Even in the AQ.
My head canon is any species that has achieved warp drive has some kind of universal translator built into the communications system of their ship. No matter which quadrant.
This "everyone speaks English" happens on other sci-fi shows. In one of the novels connected to the show Stargate SG1, it was said the stargate had a universal translator built into it.
Aside from ENT, only a handful of episodes had the UT not working (for a while at least) i.e. DSN "Sancturary" the UT even worked in "Darmok" the problem was whilst they could understand the words they needed to understand the Tamarian culture to understand what was being said.
Seems like complaining for the sake of complaining.I just ran across another criticism of Voyager on another site. The person said, "They were in a completely new area of space they had never been before, and suddenly everyone's speaking English". No trouble with the universal translator whatsoever".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did that not happen in every single version of Trek? Many times on TOS, TNG, DS9, ENT there were times they met someone they had never seen or heard of before. No problem with the universal translator. Even in the AQ.
My head canon is any species that has achieved warp drive has some kind of universal translator built into the communications system of their ship. No matter which quadrant.
This "everyone speaks English" happens on other sci-fi shows. In one of the novels connected to the show Stargate SG1, it was said the stargate had a universal translator built into it.
Ferengi have them in their ears.
Just another version of Voyager getting complained about for something the other ones get away with?
Yep. With one exception DS9 was meeting with new species from the Gamma quadrant and had no problem communicating with them
Plus the computer is always keeping track of your brain activity so it should be simple.
It was on another forum.
Fine. But I have one more thing to add.
About the conflict between Tuvok and Chakotay, I think this picture says a lot:
Kisssss...
Gotta be careful importing drama. You can get in trouble for brigadeering if that board receives a sudden influx of defenders from here.
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Back from my holiday.
Well, let's see. Not trying to be complete here, of course, or neutral, just trying to do the same for Janeway as I did for Sisko in my previous post.
Very soon after attaining her very first post as a ship's Captain (*), Janeway gets to face a challenge so extreme that few, if anyone, in Starfleet can claim to have faced and braved a similar challenge, which consists of being thrown deep into the hostile Delta Quadrant, and being entirely cut off from Starfleet for several years without due preparation. During this time, she gets to redefine the meaning of 'deep space mission'.
During these years, Janeway has to not only be the ship's Captain, with all the responsibilities that come with it (such as leading in combat, being responsible for resource allocation and keeping the ship in one piece and in top shape-- the fact that Voyager usually looks sparkling new attests to her effective leadership in this regard), but she's also more than any other captain in Starfleet responsible for forging a community from the people on board. This is especially important as they ultimately have no-one to rely on, no-one to support them, but themselves. Moreover, this task is complicated further by the fact that there are two groups (not even counting aliens picked up along the way such as Neelix), not particularly friendly to one another, that have to be blended into one seamless crew. At times, she has to maintain a precarious balance between all her different duties.
And she succeeds. Magnificently.
Whereas in the first few years, emphasis is on survival mainly, in later years Janeway and her crew, having gotten very adept at surviving, get to do bigger things. For example, there are the 8472. Initially overpowering the Borg, and threatening to purge the galaxy, and after that initial conflict is won thanks to Janeway's interference, threatening to specifically attack the Federation and earth. Janeway manages to avert the second threat too (at least, we can assume so since we hear little from the 8472's after her 'peace proposal'). Janeway also gets to 'deal a crippling blow to the Borg' in destroying the transwarp hub while getting her crew home at the same time. So she has rid (for the time being, at least) the Federation of at least two extremely dangerous enemies.
What's more, during all these years, she gets to sow some seeds in the Delta Quadrant about what Federation ideals are all about that may prove crucial in centuries to come. She's sure to have made the impression that perhaps peaceful cooperation and sharing of resources are more fruitful than war and chaos on at least some individuals and cultures along her way home. Seven matures from a drone into an individual under her influence. Neelix changes under her inspired leadership in these years from a self-interested and cynical individual into a person that will act as a true Federation ambassador to the Delta Quadrant. The culture in 'dreadnought' probably won't forget she was willing to sacrifice herself for them. A lot of other cultures (such as the 'night' aliens, and all the cultures of the peoples freed in 'displaced', for example) will remember her with gratitude, too. Such worlds may be more favourably disposed towards the Federation in any future encounters. Some of the 'mini-Federation' members in 'the void' that manage to escape the anomaly probably will spread the word of Federation ideals as well. There are even some con artists trying -and succeeding!- to sell Federation memberships, which -even with the false promises they make- is probably saying something significant about the charisma and the stature the real Janeway holds as a 'federation ambassador' herself in these regions of space.
Everything taken together, Janeway clearly served 'far above and beyond the call of duty', which probably is what got her her well-deserved promotion.
(*) I'm actually not entirely certain about this. Is this established in Voyager explicitly, that Voyager is her first captaincy?
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I'm not sure but the USS Billings is mentioned as her first command but yes, command and captaincy, she did seem to take on Voyager with the wonder of a pioneering Captain.
That was a good read! There's a theme that seems almost at odds with the stereotype of a scientist. Janeway was good at handling others. Knowing when to negotiate and when to stand strong. Knowing when to just push through. She didn't always get it right, who does. That's when Chakotay and Tuvok, even Neelix could step up. I also felt Janeway was a smart cookie. The second episode "Parallax" she goes head to head with B'Ellana trying to work out how to pass through the singularity. She didn't need those particular smarts to be Captain but it was an extra that served them all well. Left on her own she could fly Voyager.. go down with her ship if she had to like she did in 'Year of Hell." I also noticed with Janeway that in Basics when the crew were off loaded onto that planet she still remained Captain. She took command and took care of business.
Ultimately in Endgame she as Admiral Janeway still after all the years back on Earth felt the responsibility of being Voyager's Captain. She went back for them, met and remembered what her younger self had to do, and as her older self died to stall an enemy and give Voyager a different way and future. That ability to sacrifice for their 'crew' I think is what sets apart the great ones.
That was a good read! There's a theme that seems almost at odds with the stereotype of a scientist. Janeway was good at handling others. Knowing when to negotiate and when to stand strong. Knowing when to just push through. She didn't always get it right, who does. That's when Chakotay and Tuvok, even Neelix could step up. I also felt Janeway was a smart cookie. The second episode "Parallax" she goes head to head with B'Ellana trying to work out how to pass through the singularity. She didn't need those particular smarts to be Captain but it was an extra that served them all well. Left on her own she could fly Voyager.. go down with her ship if she had to like she did in 'Year of Hell." I also noticed with Janeway that in Basics when the crew were off loaded onto that planet she still remained Captain. She took command and took care of business.
Ultimately in Endgame she as Admiral Janeway still after all the years back on Earth felt the responsibility of being Voyager's Captain. She went back for them, met and remembered what her younger self had to do, and as her older self died to stall an enemy and give Voyager a different way and future. That ability to sacrifice for their 'crew' I think is what sets apart the great ones.
The first time they met the Borg for real, they were saved initially by their anti-8472 technology trump, and when 7 threatened to assimilate them after all, by the fact that Chakotay had gained some experience with Borg linkups. Regarding later encounters, I reasoned that 7 of 9 would have given them a lot of helpful insider info about Borg vulnerabilities, and hence, viable combat engagement strategies that perhaps even post-Locutus Picard never gained access to.
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