But's that not really a conflict of Maquis vs. Starfleet. That's just Star Trek. It's Bones and Spock with Kirk.
Biggest problem with "Voyager" is that they didn't really take any chances.
- Thread starter Jayson1
- Start date
From where does a necessity come from that the protagonists must have strife, all the time, and at the forefront? Perhaps Voyager is just too subtle for your tastes. Any interpersonal conflict between Maquis and Starfleet would actually end much sooner than it did if it was real life. When a group of people, with different views and methods come together under a command hierarchy, and everyone has a job to do, people will fall into a productive, positive and teamwork oriented faculty.
I'll say it again, This show is not a soap opera. The stories in Voyager are not reliant on interpersonal drama, strife, and angst. The fact that so much is there should be a bonus for you.
From the VOY Bible, the show's premise was to find a way home, explore strange new worlds, seek out technology to get home, merge two groups into a family, and go on adventures. It's a "ship show."
Even though DS9 was also episodic, in many ways it was a space opera. The "Alpha Quadrant" became the local neighborhood. Every season had a bunch of "Kira learns about her past" episodes. Every season had 3 or 4 Ferengi episodes, or O'Brien gets screwed episodes, or Worf is a pariah episodes. BTW, did you know that Worf is a pariah? It's true!
Voyager is not about that. It's about telling compelling science fiction stories, and that is what the focus is on.
But that's exactly the kind of conflict that the shows premise is talking about! These two are stuck together by circumstance, and don't like or trust each other, but eventually develop a respect for one another.
Um, I don't think Bones likes Spock, but I never doubted that he trusted him.
Besides that, Chakotay is immediately on Janeway and Tuvok's side with the training program, so the conflict is oddly unbalanced in its presentation.
Now, despite that, I agree that's the way the two should come together, but it doesn't feel organic at all. That's my frustration.
All Drama though has to have conflict. Humor as well. Sure it's not always logical and maybe Starfleet and Maquis working together in peace would be the most sensible way to go but people don't always work that way. Everyone has their own idea on how things should be done. You see it here on earth all the time. Their is a reason why democrats and republicans don't get along and maybe that is how the starfleet/maquis thing should be seen. Starfleet are the liberals and Maquis are the conservatives.
I'm not saying things should be like it is in the mirror universe were everyone is at each others throats but people can get into honest disagreements. Sometimes they handle it okay and then sometimes people can cross a line.
I do understand as a ship show that means their are some stories you can't tell since the ship is constantly moving. That means stuff with aliens proably can only last a year or so as oposed to the entire run. What the characters are doing or what life is like inside the ship though can be changed as much as you want. You do need a level of cooperation but that shouldn't be a easy thing to come by. Also the fact the ship might not make it home should be something everone aboard has to deal with and the answer shouldn't always be optimism.
Jason
Isn't the essence of drama conflict? Be that external or internal f course it is about striking the right balance, as we know it's likely that our characertes will win out in the end the external drama can only go so far. Internal drama amongest our hereos is more of a grey area as sometimes they'll be right and other times wrong. Half the problems of external threats in TNG could have been prevented if only they had listened to Worf.
Yes DSN and TNG had the whole local neighbourhood to use and DSN did add to the tapestry of the AQ/BQ by exploring races in more depth than previous shows could due to it's static location. However the one constant thing in VOY was the ship and it's crew as it couldn't replace lost crew so even though the ship is constantly moving in many ways the crew become the static element that you can grow and develop. And yes they did some of this with Characters like the EMH and Seven. And we did learn more about characters past such as Tuvok yet others like Kim seemed to be very much the same character in the last episode as the first. They had opportunities to change the character dyanmics when Paris was demoted they could have promoted Kim so Kim became Paris' senior officer how would that play out. But alas a missed opportunity.
For one thing, I wouldn't have put them in Starfleet uniforms, but that's just a surface detail.
The biggest issue is that the Maquis and Starfleet should have kept a separate command structure, with Chakotay acting as the "Maquis Captain" and Janeway being in charge of Voyager, and the Maquis not being willing to follow Janeway's orders unless Chakotay vouched for them.
While admittedly the medium is drastically different, they wound up doing something like this with Mass Effect: Andromeda. Mainly due to longstanding political grudges, the Krogan colonists -- while technically (if you do it right) still part of the Initiative -- won't actually take orders from anyone but their own internal leadership, so the colonial leaders have to tread softly and avoid pissing off the Krogan leaders whenever they need them to do something.
This is partly Beltran's own fault.
Season ONE:
Chakotay confronts his lover on her betrayal and using of him. Should have been a great scene except Beltran delivers it with all the emotion of a cigar store indian. It's AWFUL. And it's season one. So this stuff about how poor poor Beltran got pissy because he was sidelined is only half the story. He was sidelined I suspect because he was terrible! Just like Picardo got more and more limelight because he was fantastic. Writers aren't going to write dramatic storylines for people who can't deliver.
Not exactly...it was resolved by Paris saving his life. In the pilot.
Yeah, could've been done better.
^^
So, a useless plot point, save for when Paris starts his mole plot in "Investigations."
So, a useless plot point, save for when Paris starts his mole plot in "Investigations."
Yeah, the writers could've had that be the BEGINNING of Chakotay learning to get along with Paris. It shouldn't have been the end of it.
So this might just be something for fanfic but in my head canon Chakotay developed a professional respect for Tom but never really a liking for him for a long time. In my head canon when Chakotay found out that Tom and B'Elanna were involved he didn't like it and had a "dad" talk with her about him. And then again after they got married he had the "if you hurt her I'll kill you" talk with Tom
But, a missed opportunity on the show. It shouldn't have to be relegated to "head canon."
Bones loves Spock, and Spock admires Bones. As for Chakotay, he had to make an example out of Dalby.
For the benefit of everyone.
Yes, by doing things the "Maquis way" and still siding with Janeway. It isn't like Janeway had to persuade Chakotay to deal with the Maquis.
Actually, he handled things "The Cha-Ko-Tay way" as Janeway didn't have a side in it. She just assigned Tuvok to help them. Dalby was a screw up! He was skipping duty shifts and stealing replicator rations. Would Chakotay disagree with Tuvok helping square him away? Of course not! Chuckles wants the Maquis to integrate. If they don't, he loses respect, which translates to command ability. It's in his best interest to set this example. You make it sound like he was cowering before the bun of steel with his tail between his legs. As if he should have desired some other course of action.
Just because its something *i* think is interesting doesn't make it a missed opportunity. Just something that I personally thought about. I guarantee you that there will be many people who would have hated to see something like that
That's not how I was describing Chakotay at all, so I think I'll let this be, since there is a misinterpretation of what I am trying to communicate. Clearly I'm not communicating my ideas very well.
I happen to agree with your summary, and I think it would have been nice drama, so I think it was a missed opportunity.
Not really sure what I'm looking at here, but I'm glad you enjoy it. 
