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Biggest problem with "Voyager" is that they didn't really take any chances.

It's limitless apparently..

No shit. We're discussing possibilities within a piece fiction. People are using their imaginations.

When that's limited, it's generally considered a bad thing.

This makes sense.. how?

I thought you just claimed to not need the obvious spelled out for you?

Um since you edited, I will too. You still make zero sense with your edit, lol. But thanks for trying to speak for the other poster.. I think..

I always edit my posts. I like to be concise, and lack little things like...forethought. Patience. Decent spelling and punctuation ability...
 
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Report me and find out.

Otherwise, we're not meant to throw around the t-word in threads. It's considered a form of...oh darn.
 
Let's just talk about the topic thread shall we? Your interest in my movements is a little unnerving, lol.
 
Forget for a moment what everyone here has said for what they feel would have made for a better show. Does anyone doubt, as good as you might consider the show we did get, that it wouldn't have been better If Micheal Pillar had ran the show the entire time?
Do people feel the show improved over the last 5 seasons or got worst or just stayed the same? LIke I said in another thread I think the first 2 seasons are equal to other Trek shows. I felt there was a regression for the most part. Season 4 is actually great in part because it did seem to address some of the concerns people like me had but then they didn't build on that and keep making improvements.
It's kind of the same problem TNG had is once they established a formula in season 3 that worked they never felt the need to try anything new. I'm a big supporter in the idea that tv shows need to constantly change the status quo,whether that is through characters or story arcs, to stay fresh and intresting.

"Voyager" as it was is fine for the most part but I just don't see what about it that makes it feel special. All the other Trek shows also have flaws but their strengths seem to work better than some "Voyager's" strengths. Everything they did well, almost feels like it had already been done better or just as good on the previous shows.

Jason
 
Forget for a moment what everyone here has said for what they feel would have made for a better show. Does anyone doubt, as good as you might consider the show we did get, that it wouldn't have been better If Micheal Pillar had ran the show the entire time?
Do people feel the show improved over the last 5 seasons or got worst or just stayed the same? LIke I said in another thread I think the first 2 seasons are equal to other Trek shows. I felt there was a regression for the most part. Season 4 is actually great in part because it did seem to address some of the concerns people like me had but then they didn't build on that and keep making improvements.
It's kind of the same problem TNG had is once they established a formula in season 3 that worked they never felt the need to try anything new. I'm a big supporter in the idea that tv shows need to constantly change the status quo,whether that is through characters or story arcs, to stay fresh and intresting.

"Voyager" as it was is fine for the most part but I just don't see what about it that makes it feel special. All the other Trek shows also have flaws but their strengths seem to work better than some "Voyager's" strengths. Everything they did well, almost feels like it had already been done better or just as good on the previous shows.

Jason
In my opinion....

I can't think of a single show or movie or novel that is completely perfect. There is nothing written that someone hadn't thought hey maybe it would have been a little better if this or that happened.

Voyager is my favorite show. Is if perfect? Of course not. For me it got better and better with each passing season. I loved most of the characters and think most of them were very well acted. I think most of the episodes were well written and very entertaining.
 
Hmm.. well I think I will put this thread on my don't watch list. The first ever. Sad because I thought the Voyager forum was a ..refuge like me, but onward and upward..

Knock yourselves out!
 
Oh how funny! Bless you..

Yes that was just an excerpt I know ;)
In my opinion....

I can't think of a single show or movie or novel that is completely perfect. There is nothing written that someone hadn't thought hey maybe it would have been a little better if this or that happened.

Voyager is my favorite show. Is if perfect? Of course not. For me it got better and better with each passing season. I loved most of the characters and think most of them were very well acted. I think most of the episodes were well written and very entertaining.
I agree that it can all be subjective. I can only speak about my own opinions and maybe a general idea of what the majority feels but even that gets tricky because all we can go off is stuff we see here on the Trekbbs or other places on the internet.
One impression I do have though is almost every bad thing people say about the show seems to come from either season 6 or season 7, except for the "Threshold" ep and maybe the Kazon. Not sure I have ever got a good feel on what the overall opinion of the Kazon ended up being.

When I think of the really bad stuff it would be things like
The Rock in a episode, Kes coming back for revenge, The Irish Villiage on the holodeck,Borg children,UNimatrix two parter, Seven/Choctay romance and not getting to see the Voyager back home until the very last moment, possible.
I've always asumed that even people who do love the show, proably felt the last 2 years weren't really that good, much in the way TNG fans tend to think of it's first two years of not being very good.

Jason
 
"Voyager" as it was is fine for the most part but I just don't see what about it that makes it feel special.

It's not. Not for me anyway.

But when you like something, 'more of the same' can be enjoyable. Especially if 'more' occasionally throws in giant awesome curveballs like 'The Captain plays chicken with a sun...and wins.'

The Rock in a episode,

Hey! That man is 'charm' in human form.

Seven/Choctay romance

Okaygoodpoint.
 
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I agree that it can all be subjective. I can only speak about my own opinions and maybe a general idea of what the majority feels but even that gets tricky because all we can go off is stuff we see here on the Trekbbs or other places on the internet.
One impression I do have though is almost every bad thing people say about the show seems to come from either season 6 or season 7, except for the "Threshold" ep and maybe the Kazon. Not sure I have ever got a good feel on what the overall opinion of the Kazon ended up being.

When I think of the really bad stuff it would be things like
The Rock in a episode, Kes coming back for revenge, The Irish Villiage on the holodeck,Borg children,UNimatrix two parter, Seven/Choctay romance and not getting to see the Voyager back home until the very last moment, possible.
I've always asumed that even people who do love the show, proably felt the last 2 years weren't really that good, much in the way TNG fans tend to think of it's first two years of not being very good.

Jason
Well, I love the show and think the last 2 seasons were the best
 
It's not. Not for me anyway.

But when you like something, 'more of the same' can be enjoyable. Especially if 'more' occasionally throws in giant awesome curveballs like 'The Captain plays chicken with a sun...and wins.'



Hey! That man is 'charm' in human form.



Okaygoodpoint.
Definately have to agree with you about The Rock. ;)
 
Well, I love the show and think the last 2 seasons were the best
I'm curious about why you liked those seasons better than the others? Was it just the individual episode's or something they were doing overall that you felt was even better than what came before?
For me I did like the use of Barclay and I liked some individual episodes quit abit like the Barklay ep's, "Lineage" and the ep about the primitive aliens doing a play about Voyager and the "Equinox" 2-parter and the ep with a Timeship and captain Braxton but overall everything didn't work that much for me.
Jason
 
With all the talk of premise last night, I thought it would be good to actually see what Voyager's premise was.

STAR TREK: VOYAGER BIBLE

STAR TREK: VOYAGER is set in the same time frame as "The Next Generation" and "Deep Space Nine." It chronicles the adventures of a Starfleet vessel which must make its way back to Federation space from a distant part of the galaxy.

THE BACKSTORY

The Cardassian war is over, but the conflict refuses to die. Cardassians within the Demilitarized Zone continue to harass Federation outposts, and while Starfleet responds to any significant aggression, some colonists have decided to take matters into their own hands. This group of resistance fighters calls itself the Maquis -- and they are becoming more than a nuisance. The Federation considers them outlaws.
The Starfleet ship Voyager is dispatched to search for a Maquis ship which has disappeared in an unusual region of space known as the "Badlands." But Voyager finds itself swept up in a strange and terrifying phenomenon which ultimately deposits the ship at the far reaches of the galaxy -- so far that, even at warp speeds, it would take nearly seventy years to return.
They also find the Maquis ship there, and, in an uneasy liaison, the crews of the two ships agree to band together in order to maximize their chances of surviving and returning to Federation space.
But the Maquis ship is destroyed and its crew must come aboard Voyager. The two ships' captains negotiate for key positions: the Maquis insist on certain pivotal roles for their senior staff. An agreement is struck, and the ship sets out, manned by this unusual mix of Starfleet and renegade officers -- some of whom get along, and some of whom don't.
Their quest is to find a "shortcut" home, a wormhole or other phenomenon which will transport them over the huge distance in minutes. But the Voyager Captain also insists that -- even though they are seventy years from Starfleet Command -- they behave as a Starfleet crew. They will continue to go boldly, to explore, study, and investigate, so that when they do return, they will have amassed a vast wealth of knowledge about a heretofore unexplored region of space.

THE STARSHIP VOYAGER

It is smaller, sleeker, and more advanced than the Enterprise. It holds a crew of some two hundred, and does not have families on board.
Details of the ship will be provided as it is designed.

THE MAQUIS

The Cardassians and the Federation may consider the Maquis outlaws, but in their own minds they are freedom fighters. They are idealistic nonconformists who believe passionately that they are taking the only course of action they can to protect themselves and their loved ones from continued Cardassian aggression.
Some are Starfleet officers who have resigned their commissions or dropped out of the Academy. Some have been asked to leave Starfleet. But most share a common trait: they are not comfortable living under the strict rules of conduct demanded by Starfleet. They are independent, free-thinking individuals with perhaps a few more rough edges than we might see in a typical Starfleet crew.
In addition to the two regular characters that are Maquis (Chakotay and B'Elanna), we assume that some twenty more have come on board and can be used from time to time in stories.

-I'll post the bios that follow some other time. This really precisely describes the show, and is very close to the exposition given in Caretaker. That last part about the Maquis is in general speaking of the main cast members, Chakotay, B'elanna. And to some extent, Paris.




 
With all the talk of premise last night, I thought it would be good to actually see what Voyager's premise was.

STAR TREK: VOYAGER BIBLE

STAR TREK: VOYAGER is set in the same time frame as "The Next Generation" and "Deep Space Nine." It chronicles the adventures of a Starfleet vessel which must make its way back to Federation space from a distant part of the galaxy.

THE BACKSTORY

The Cardassian war is over, but the conflict refuses to die. Cardassians within the Demilitarized Zone continue to harass Federation outposts, and while Starfleet responds to any significant aggression, some colonists have decided to take matters into their own hands. This group of resistance fighters calls itself the Maquis -- and they are becoming more than a nuisance. The Federation considers them outlaws.
The Starfleet ship Voyager is dispatched to search for a Maquis ship which has disappeared in an unusual region of space known as the "Badlands." But Voyager finds itself swept up in a strange and terrifying phenomenon which ultimately deposits the ship at the far reaches of the galaxy -- so far that, even at warp speeds, it would take nearly seventy years to return.
They also find the Maquis ship there, and, in an uneasy liaison, the crews of the two ships agree to band together in order to maximize their chances of surviving and returning to Federation space.
But the Maquis ship is destroyed and its crew must come aboard Voyager. The two ships' captains negotiate for key positions: the Maquis insist on certain pivotal roles for their senior staff. An agreement is struck, and the ship sets out, manned by this unusual mix of Starfleet and renegade officers -- some of whom get along, and some of whom don't.
Their quest is to find a "shortcut" home, a wormhole or other phenomenon which will transport them over the huge distance in minutes. But the Voyager Captain also insists that -- even though they are seventy years from Starfleet Command -- they behave as a Starfleet crew. They will continue to go boldly, to explore, study, and investigate, so that when they do return, they will have amassed a vast wealth of knowledge about a heretofore unexplored region of space.


THE STARSHIP VOYAGER

It is smaller, sleeker, and more advanced than the Enterprise. It holds a crew of some two hundred, and does not have families on board.
Details of the ship will be provided as it is designed.

THE MAQUIS

The Cardassians and the Federation may consider the Maquis outlaws, but in their own minds they are freedom fighters. They are idealistic nonconformists who believe passionately that they are taking the only course of action they can to protect themselves and their loved ones from continued Cardassian aggression.
Some are Starfleet officers who have resigned their commissions or dropped out of the Academy. Some have been asked to leave Starfleet. But most share a common trait: they are not comfortable living under the strict rules of conduct demanded by Starfleet. They are independent, free-thinking individuals with perhaps a few more rough edges than we might see in a typical Starfleet crew.
In addition to the two regular characters that are Maquis (Chakotay and B'Elanna), we assume that some twenty more have come on board and can be used from time to time in stories.

-I'll post the bios that follow some other time. This really precisely describes the show, and is very close to the exposition given in Caretaker. That last part about the Maquis is in general speaking of the main cast members, Chakotay, B'elanna. And to some extent, Paris.



Thank you for posting this.

It seems like pretty much everything there we saw happen in the show. They all agreed to work as one crew, a Starfleet crew. They agreed to follow Starfleet rules even though they may not like it too much they understand it's the best bet to get home
 
I'm curious about why you liked those seasons better than the others? Was it just the individual episode's or something they were doing overall that you felt was even better than what came before?
For me I did like the use of Barclay and I liked some individual episodes quit abit like the Barklay ep's, "Lineage" and the ep about the primitive aliens doing a play about Voyager and the "Equinox" 2-parter and the ep with a Timeship and captain Braxton but overall everything didn't work that much for me.
Jason
For me I tend to like the later seasons of most shows better, when the writers and actors are more familiar with their characters.

With Voyager I liked the later seasons better. I liked the individual episodes better, most of my favorite episodes are in the last two seasons. I also liked the overall feel of the show better.
 
My only difficulty is that "conflict" was done in two episodes or so. So, apparently the "uneasy alliance" was fairly easy to resolve. Again, missed opportunities for me.

VOY has fun, episodic, nature that is easily re-watchable without worrying about continuity, save for when Seven appears. It has some unique characters that give a different perspective.

My only argument is that there was the potential for it to be more an take the Star Trek franchise to a different place...period. I don't care if you like the show or if you don't like the show. I'm stating what I think.
 
The conflict was still present at the end of season 1. The whole episode is about Maquis crew members who are having a hard time adjusting and Tuvok training them
 
My only difficulty is that "conflict" was done in two episodes or so. So, apparently the "uneasy alliance" was fairly easy to resolve. Again, missed opportunities for me.

VOY has fun, episodic, nature that is easily re-watchable without worrying about continuity, save for when Seven appears. It has some unique characters that give a different perspective.

My only argument is that there was the potential for it to be more an take the Star Trek franchise to a different place...period. I don't care if you like the show or if you don't like the show. I'm stating what I think.

I do agree, I think that most of the tensions should have been resolved at the end of Season 1.

I mean really, the Maquis' raison d'etre was the DMZ and the Cardassians...who are no longer present in the DQ.

In DS9 did Sisko remain in conflict with Kira and Odo past Season 1? No, they all got along fine after that.
 
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