Biggest problem with "Voyager" is that they didn't really take any chances.

[Tracy Trek]

Why not reference repairs and trading in passing? Why spend whole episodes showing Janeway getting spare parts from DQ aliens of the week? Just say we traded goods and voila we were on are way.

Are there not many episodes where trading with alien species is at the very least mentioned? Or actually showing them interaction with these species for the purposes of trading or getting mineral rights?

And if Hugh and his renegade Borg showed up in Voyager and THEY were the ones behind the Unimatrix Zero Rebellion

That would have been an interesting idea. In fact it's a partial head canon of mine. I do wish there had been ideas like this used. Or having an episode of DS9 where they are dealing with the disappearance of Voyager.

 

[Anwar]

Even when they did use past continuity to help out later stories, it still got criticism.

IE, Chakotay using his Borg connection to stop Seven in "Scorpion".

 

[Nightdiamond]

You mean the pylon repair that I criticised as being a bullshit handwave? How the flying fuck is that being unfair? And I repeat: what's all that bullshit about 'going through this again?'

And lately, I'm reading the word 'bologna' way too much in this forum. It's giving me flashbacks to being in grade school. I didn't like grade school.



I like all the Star Treks, to an extent. *glares at TMP and INS* A very, very, generous, extent.

I think that means I fail at being a Trekkie. It haunts me every day. There are no smileys sad enough to convey my woe.



Plus, we're bickering.

It's why the politics forums are so busy. And everyone knows that series is the worst by far.

Lol bickering can be fun makes forums interesting.

I don't really remember Voyager getting as many messages traffic as the other forums did. I think it has something to do with it being on BBC now, the extra TV exposure. DS9 was always the second banana in the forum.

Damn you can only wonder how the forums would blow up if we had a popular current Trek show on the air now.

Edit-- And a little controversial. No need in getting another show canceled too soon.

 

[fireproof78]

Even when they did use past continuity to help out later stories, it still got criticism.

IE, Chakotay using his Borg connection to stop Seven in "Scorpion".

Every idea ever gets criticism. Criticism does not equal hatred.

 

[Gary7]

Even when they did use past continuity to help out later stories, it still got criticism.

IE, Chakotay using his Borg connection to stop Seven in "Scorpion".

True. I presume he was never "completely restored" from his Borg experience, which enabled him to have an innate ability to communicate with other Borg. I find it kind of silly... as there's no implant. If he had an implant that could never be taken out, but generally considered benign... except for communication capability (which means a power source... and that has all kinds of issues with it), then perhaps. I don't like it when they cross the line on plausibility like that.

 

[Prax]

True. I presume he was never "completely restored" from his Borg experience, which enabled him to have an innate ability to communicate with other Borg. I find it kind of silly... as there's no implant. If he had an implant that could never be taken out, but generally considered benign... except for communication capability (which means a power source... and that has all kinds of issues with it), then perhaps. I don't like it when they cross the line on plausibility like that.

He uses the same device that was used on him in "Unity." It's not some residual thing. He's just the only guy who has experience using such kinky technology. And if the scene feels cheesy, just remember Cha-Ko-Tay was only trying to distract Seven until they could electrocute her.

Even when they did use past continuity to help out later stories, it still got criticism.

IE, Chakotay using his Borg connection to stop Seven in "Scorpion".

Yeah, it's actually surprising just how often references to past episodes/events are made. It happens almost every episode. It's not just Voyager either, but the other shows, too. I feel like everytime I watch TNG(now that I'm listening for it), there's some reference to a past episode. DS9, too. And ENT does it a lot.

Edited to add: Since we're talking about the whole "repairs" thing and Scorpion was mentioned, it happens here, too. At the end of the episode, Chakotay's like "We're beginning repairs. Engineering says it's gonna take two weeks just to get all that ugly green stupid Borg crap off our ship! B'elanna wants to keep some of it..." and then, in the next episode, they still haven't finished restoring the ship, and it's shown to still be in a similar state to what it was in Scorpion Part 2.

 

[Gary7]

He uses the same device that was used on him in "Unity." It's not some residual thing. He's just the only guy who has experience using such kinky technology. And if the scene feels cheesy, just remember Cha-Ko-Tay was only trying to distract Seven until they could electrocute her.

Yes, I remember that attachment... but I figured he'd have to have some kind of companion implant in his head. But perhaps you're right, that it's his familiarity with the link up that made it the suitable choice for Chakotay to use it.

 

[Jbarney]

My biggest problem with Voyager, even though I liked the series as a whole, was the lack of originality in every season. I don't have a problem with nuggets of Trek lore popping up along side the idea Voyager was 70 years from home.....
but....
They relied on Alpha Quadrant information/lore/stories way too much. Defies probability.

 

[Prax]

What do you mean? I can think maybe 3 or 4 episodes. There's the Ferengi episode, the one with the cardassian hologram. The religious Klingons, and the Romulan wormhole one in season 1. That's 4/172, and they're all in different seasons.

The Ferengi one was a sequel to a TNG episode that involved a wormhole to the Delta Q, 70,000 LY away. DS9 had a sequel to the TNG episode's Captain's Holiday, and QPid called Q-Less. The Cardassian guy was a hologram the EMH created. I guess I can't really defend the probability of passing a ship of Klingon pilgrims from Kirk's era.

 

[Anwar]

True. I presume he was never "completely restored" from his Borg experience, which enabled him to have an innate ability to communicate with other Borg. I find it kind of silly... as there's no implant. If he had an implant that could never be taken out, but generally considered benign... except for communication capability (which means a power source... and that has all kinds of issues with it), then perhaps. I don't like it when they cross the line on plausibility like that.

You mean like how Picard could still tap into the Borg Collective in First Contact?

 

[Trekkin]

Yeah. It was a lot like that giant piece of deus ex machina crap.

'Good news everyone! I've learned my lesson, and shall now blow up the Enterprise to show how I've put aside my selfish grudge and hang ups, for the sake of selflessly protecting humani...oh. My magic telepathy conveniently says I have to rescue Data.

...

Never mind. Flesh-melting and spine-snapping vengeance for all!'
​

I don't mind First Contact. I don't even take that much issue introduction of the Queen. But Picard's Sudden Borg Powers of Script Reading, do not make for a great criticism shield.

 

[Refuge]

My biggest problem with Voyager is that it was set in the 24th Century, had a woman Captain, a Marquis Indian Commander, a Vulcan, an Ocampa and Talaxain, a Hologram, a romantic couple Tom and B'Ellana and Harry. Damn that Harry. They were in the Delta Quadrant and sometimes met aliens. What is with that? Sometimes they met familiar links to the Alpha Quadrant. Sometime some of the little guys we saw more than twice and sometimes they died. Janeway was too scientific, dispassionate and emotional when she wasn't being nurturing, passionate and calculating. What really irked me was that they moved! Like they used their time in the Delta Quadrant trying to get home when they should have been settling down. Their constant need to regroup, and repair, and replenish without me seeing it was very unrealistic. This is fiction we're talking about. I counted all those torpedos and every replicated coffee bean on board and the numbers didn't add up. Fool me once, but never twice.

 

[Refuge]

If one has not seen the show since it aired, then many of the generalizations we keep seeing make a lot more sense, albeit to the detriment of productive discussion. Then again, this thread was bound was and determined to be unproductive from its' premise, which assumed that A)There's a problem, and B) Voyager "didn't take chances" It's a generalization, it's cynical, and just vague enough to attract any perceived grievance to be dumped here.

Post of the thread!

Gold Star Award!

 

[Trekkin]

My biggest problem with Voyager is that it was set in the 24th Century, had a woman Captain, a Marquis Indian Commander, a Vulcan, an Ocampa and Talaxain, a Hologram, a romantic couple Tom and B'Ellana and Harry. Damn that Harry. They were in the Delta Quadrant and sometimes met aliens. What is with that? Sometimes they met familiar links to the Alpha Quadrant. Sometime some of the little guys we saw more than twice and sometimes they died. Janeway was too scientific, dispassionate and emotional when she wasn't being nurturing, passionate and calculating. What really irked me was that they moved! Like they used their time in the Delta Quadrant trying to get home when they should have been settling down. Their constant need to regroup, and repair, and replenish without me seeing it was very unrealistic. This is fiction we're talking about. I counted all those torpedos and every replicated coffee bean on board and the numbers didn't add up. Fool me once, but never twice.

Hey Prax? Are we still playing 'spot the fallacy?' Cos I'm raising you some blinding examples of 'resort to ridicule,' and the ever reliable 'the straw man.'

Informal fallacies totally count. The official rule book says so.

 

[Refuge]

For someone who has used DS9 as a comparison point of where Voyager "falls flat" in this very thread numerous times, what is the point of this? When one topic get's old, you'll look for a new one to complain about. It's obvious that relentlessly complaining about Voyager is emotionally gratifying for you. This isn't actually honest criticism, no matter how you spin it. You don't like the show...okay. Oh, you don't like some aspects of the show. Well, you never seem to run out of aspects. What is the point? Voyager is not going to change.

It sounds like you have made it utterly impossible for yourself to enjoy Voyager.

You're my hero, lol.. best laugh I've had all day. Voyager is not going to change hate threads or not.

 

[Refuge]

Hey Prax? Are we still playing 'spot the fallacy?' Cos I'm setting the raising you some blinding examples of 'resort to ridicule,' and the ever reliable 'the straw man.'

Informal fallacies totally count. The rule book says so.

You make zero sense, yet again..

 

[Trekkin]

You make zero sense, yet again..

That's okay. Try going slower, and sounding out the letters.

 

[Phoenix219]

Why not reference repairs and trading in passing? Why spend whole episodes showing Janeway getting spare parts from DQ aliens of the week? Just say we traded goods and voila we were on are way.

Some nice episodes and struggles could be involved in getting parts and supplies....the distance and loneliness and vastness of space apparent in the TOS pilot, and the struggle to get dilithium crystals and the like, should have been amplified 50 fold on Voyager.

 

[Refuge]

50 fold? That's not enough! Voyager should have done it 100 fold. Voyager never did any episodes where struggling to get parts and supplies was the springboard for a nice episode. Never, not once, ever.

 

[Sophie74656]

50 fold? That's not enough! Voyager should have done it 100 fold. Voyager never did any episodes where struggling to get parts and supplies was the springboard for a nice episode. Never, not once, ever.

Not even once.....well one time it did happen was in Demon. They are about to completely run out of dilithium.