I praise Voyager for things it does well and criticize what I don't think it did well. DS9 is not my benchmark.
Biggest problem with "Voyager" is that they didn't really take any chances.
- Thread starter Jayson1
- Start date
Regards the Sisko and Janeway thing.. I'm loathed to play the gender/political correctness card but there is that ever so subliminally. A big, solid man, with that voice of his (such stage presence), you kind of take seriously and don't want to disrespect. Compare with Janeway and what? She's unstable. Yeah. I can hear indignant denials as I type but Janeway was not allowed to suffer a showing of crisis or rule like a man.
Voyager did not have to wish to be something else. That's the whole point of it it was its own creation. It wasn't DS9 and it wasn't Battlestar. I'm really glad too, I hate most of these suggestions in this thread. I wouldn't have watched.
We'll team up
Saying Voyager had too many Borg episodes is like saying TNG or DS9 had too many Klingon episodes. The only Borg episode I didn't really care for was Unimatrix Zero, but I'm not going to make generalizations about an entire show over 1 episode... And it was very satisfying to see them finally defeat the Borg in Endgame.
As for time travel, I'm not sure how you're counting(I know you said it's not about numbers, but watch.) but here's what I got:
These are mostly pretty well received episodes except for probably Fury, and maybe Endgame. And they are each unique from each other. There's only one with the typical "ship travels to the past" type of story(Future's End).
Here's DS9:
As for time travel, I'm not sure how you're counting(I know you said it's not about numbers, but watch.) but here's what I got:
- Time & Again(s1)
- Eye of the Needle(s1)
- Future's End(s3)
- Before & After(s3)
- Year of Hell(s4)
- Timeless(s5)
- Relativity(s5)
- Fury(s6)
- Shattered(s7)
- Endgame(s7)
These are mostly pretty well received episodes except for probably Fury, and maybe Endgame. And they are each unique from each other. There's only one with the typical "ship travels to the past" type of story(Future's End).
Here's DS9:
- Past Tense(s3)
- Visionary(s3)
- The Visitor(s4)
- Little Green Men(s4)
- Accession(s4)
- Trials & Tribble-ations(s5)
- Children of Time(s5)
- Wrongs Darker that Death or Night(s5)
- Time's Orphan(s6)
- The Sound of Her Voice(s6)
They did.
While I'm at it...
TNG:
TNG:
- We'll Always Have Paris(s1)
- Time Squared(s2)
- Yesterday's Enterprise(s3)
- Captain's Holiday(s3)
- A Matter of Time(s5)
- Cause & Effect(s5)
- Times Arrow(s5)
- Tapestry(s6)
- Timescape(s7)
- Firstborn(s7)
- All Good Things...
- Star Trek: Generations
- Star Trek: First Contact
- The Naked Time(s1)
- Tomorrow is Yesterday(s1)
- The City on the Edge of Forever(s1)
- Assignment: Earth(s2)
- All Our Yesterdays(S3)
- Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
- TOS: 6.98%
- TNG: 6.04%
- DS9: 5.71%
- VOY: 5.91%
Well? Where have you been? It'd be nice to defend DS9 once in a while.
I've posted my criticisms of DS9 on the DS9 forums, perhaps in brief. I never really got in to that show until "Trials and Tribble-ations" and even then, it was hit and miss. Season 1 and 2 were just meh.
Also, the Klingons are way overdown, especially in DS9, with TNG a close second.
Speaking of DS9 and Klingons that was as I understand it studio decree-people say DS9 had all this creative freedom yet clearly when it came down to it the men in suits would order things they deemed necessary/selling on DS9 as well.
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Was Michael Dorn given a specific offer to be on the show? Was he bored? What gives?
You have to admit there's plenty of stuff other Treks do that Voyager gets hit hardest with.
Look, Best of Both Worlds had all the same plot holes that Voyager's Borg stories did. Just that no one cares.
The assertion Voyager defanged the Borg I think can be legitimately contested-I have done it before but I'm too tired to do it now.
True supposedly Jem'hadar are these awesome professional troops by the end they were mooks.
Not as much as it gets presented as, but thankfully Abrams Trek came along to save them
The Enterprise had support of the Federation, while Voyager was alone, and yet was pursued by an Ahab-complex driven Queen.
And for the list of episodes featuring time travel.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Time_travel_episodes
Ok why wasn't she allowed to that? And don't say it's because she's a woman because wouldn't that be playing the gender card? They could have made that into a character/story arc as she struggles tocome to terms with what she has to do to get her crew home, does she play it by the rules or does she ignore the rules so you can actually show her having a crisiss of faith in her abilites (and you could do this even if it was a male). This in turn could feed in Chokatay as comes to reply and respeect him more and more.
And you're right VOY did not wish to be something else it settled for TNG-lite, TNG 2.0, which was a shame it had so much potential and apart from a few glimpses I don't think it really lived up to it's potential. Sure it had the odd episode which stands up with the best of the Trek episodes and some interesting characters but for me VOY was simple average overall. Not bad but not great.
I wouldn't say Voyager ruined time travel, which isn't fair at all, since the other shows did it so much. I would say that by the time Voyager tackled the idea it was pretty much lacked the same fascination as it used to. The other shows sort of ran the idea into the ground over time. Voyager kind of inherited it.
The Borg ---- if I use myself as a typical viewer, this is what I thought while watching the series----- Scorpion was a great episode. A few others were good, but then it got to a point of seeing episodes that show the Borg daydreaming and then plotting a rebellion, a super Borg that just appeared accidently and then bravely sacrifices itself, former Borg children who become new crew members, the Borg Queen takes a personal interest in Seven, the crew ends up knowing everything about how they work etc.,.
Maybe a better way of saying it is that Voyager watered down the Borg too much instead of saying they over used it.
The Borg ---- if I use myself as a typical viewer, this is what I thought while watching the series----- Scorpion was a great episode. A few others were good, but then it got to a point of seeing episodes that show the Borg daydreaming and then plotting a rebellion, a super Borg that just appeared accidently and then bravely sacrifices itself, former Borg children who become new crew members, the Borg Queen takes a personal interest in Seven, the crew ends up knowing everything about how they work etc.,.
Maybe a better way of saying it is that Voyager watered down the Borg too much instead of saying they over used it.
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