BIG NEMESIS PLOT HOLE

[shakov]

Is there anybody out there that can explain Picard's breaking the prime directive?? My god man, worf is shooting at the planet's inhabitants.
What a pile of steaming poo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, for all that is holy, what the hell was Shinzons plan regarding B4. How did he know that the enterprise would be the ship to find it?
More poo for you.

 

[Christopher]

Is there anybody out there that can explain Picard's breaking the prime directive?? My god man, worf is shooting at the planet's inhabitants.

Actually it would've been a greater breach of the Prime Directive if they hadn't fought back. Consider: As it is, the natives have no hard evidence of alien visitation -- just a few uncorroborated stories and mysterious scorch marks. It would have no more effect on their society than any of the thousands of alleged UFO sightings on present-day Earth. However, if Picard & co. hadn't defended themselves, they might've been captured or killed, and then the natives would have solid, irrefutable proof of alien life, as well as having alien technology they could study and reverse-engineer. And that would cause a major transformation of their society.

That said, the whole dune-buggy chase sequence was undoubtedly the low point of the film, a totally gratuitous action sequence wasting time that could've been spent on character scenes.

Also, for all that is holy, what the hell was Shinzons plan regarding B4. How did he know that the enterprise would be the ship to find it?

Probably he knew from Romulan military intelligence what the Enterprise's patrol route and schedule would be, and arranged to send out a positronic signal at the appropriate moment as a lure.

 

[CoveTom]

Starting a thread to announce that Nemesis has a plot hole is like starting a thread to announce that Wrath of Khan featured Khan.

 

[Mr. B]

How the hell does Khan know Chekov?!

 

[GalaxyX]

Starting a thread to announce that Nemesis has a plot hole is like starting a thread to announce that Wrath of Khan featured Khan.

LMAO!! Yeah and another huge revelation................it had Kirk.......shhhhh

 

[Too Much Fun]

We should change the name of this area of the forum to "Star Trek: Nemesis sucks".

 

[GalaxyX]

Well I hated everything about that movie, so I have no issues with anyone or any thread giving it the bashing it so desperately deserves.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

I thought you meant the bit between the opening and closing credit sequences. I can't explain that away.

 

[ConRefit79]

I thought those aliens who attacked Picard, Data and Worf were Remans.
I think the plan for B4 was to steal information on the Earth's defenses.

 

[Jeyl]

It was an action scene put in just for the sake of an action scene. I would have cut back to the Enterprise after Picard says "This doesn't feel right" and nothing would be missed.

 

[Christopher]

^Exactly. If I were to attempt a fan edit, I'd cut the entire buggy chase and restore the pivotal scene of Picard and Data in the ready room after the wedding reception. As it is, I try to make it work that way anyway when I watch the DVD -- I go right to the deleted scenes after the reception, and then I fast-forward through the buggy chase.

Feature-film editing these days has become a process of slaughter rather than precisions. The demand is for "pacing" above all other considerations, so plot, dialogue, and character get mercilessly chopped in order to keep the action moving relentlessly forward. And that doesn't make any sense to me. Why are filmmakers so afraid of losing their audience's attention for five seconds? I mean, it's not like they can just change the channel. They're there in the theater. They've spent extortionate amounts of money to be there. It stands to reason that they're willing to stick around. So why can't filmmakers take advantage of that commitment from the audience and take the time to tell them a story at a more measured pace?

 

[dave_R_treker]

How the hell does Khan know Chekov?!

This doesn't pertain to Nemesis, but it's been speculated that Chekov was onboard the Enterprise, probably on one of the lower decks. I forget where I read/heard this.

 

[Christopher]

^It's been suggested in many places, but one of the primary ones was DC Comics' Who's Who in Star Trek, a 2-issue tie-in to their ST comics at the time (and a spinoff of their Who's Who in the DC Universe miniseries), basically an illustrated encyclopedia of ST's characters, species, ships, institutions, etc. It was written by Allan Asherman, who's previously written the Star Trek Compendium for Pocket Books. He proposed that Chekov had served in engineering and had led the defense of that section against Khan's takeover. I borrowed this idea for my first Trek novel, Ex Machina, which is apparently where many current fans saw it for the first time, judging from the reactions I've heard.

 

[Claudia]

^Exactly. If I were to attempt a fan edit, I'd cut the entire buggy chase and restore the pivotal scene of Picard and Data in the ready room after the wedding reception. As it is, I try to make it work that way anyway when I watch the DVD -- I go right to the deleted scenes after the reception, and then I fast-forward through the buggy chase.

Now you made me curious about that pivotal scene - and I can't remember where I put my Nemesis-DVD to view it. Could you post a quick summary, please?

Feature-film editing these days has become a process of slaughter rather than precisions. The demand is for "pacing" above all other considerations, so plot, dialogue, and character get mercilessly chopped in order to keep the action moving relentlessly forward. And that doesn't make any sense to me. Why are filmmakers so afraid of losing their audience's attention for five seconds? I mean, it's not like they can just change the channel. They're there in the theater. They've spent extortionate amounts of money to be there. It stands to reason that they're willing to stick around. So why can't filmmakers take advantage of that commitment from the audience and take the time to tell them a story at a more measured pace?

QFT.

(rant-mode on) Let's face it, action scenes (especially in varying settings) make for better trailers - less action, less kaboom in the trailer --> less people in the theatres. And let's not forget merchandise with tie-in computer games that take place practically exclusively during those action sequences of the movie. And I'm really sick of that policy often ruining potentially good movies... (rant-mode off)

 

[shakov]

I thought those aliens who attacked Picard, Data and Worf were Remans.
I think the plan for B4 was to steal information on the Earth's defenses.

Does anybody else think that they were Reman.

 

[Christopher]

Now you made me curious about that pivotal scene - and I can't remember where I put my Nemesis-DVD to view it. Could you post a quick summary, please?

Picard and Data are toasting the Riker-Troi couple and Data asks about the paradoxical mix of happiness and sadness. Picard talks about how such rituals mark transitions in our lives, and gets contemplative about the choices he's made, the opportunities he's missed. It's an important setup for Data's choices toward the end of the film, because it involves the idea that being human involves mortality, making sacrifices for family, etc. Without this scene, a lot of Data's later stuff in the film seems somewhat arbitrary because the underlying motivation wasn't established.

Does anybody else think that they were Reman.

They didn't look like Remans at all.

Kolarin: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/nemesis/ch4/nemesis154.jpg

Reman: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/nemesis/ch8/nemesis209.jpg

 

[Pavonis]

Keenser looks like a Kolaran! Definitely not Reman, though.

 

[Xerxes1979]

How the hell does Khan know Chekov?!

Stardate from Space Seed 3141.9 Season 1

Stardate from Catspaw 3018.2 Season 2

 

[Candlelight]

Also, for all that is holy, what the hell was Shinzons plan regarding B4.

Go back in time 900 years and kill the Grey Council before it's formed.

 

[Broccoli]

I didn't mind the chase sequence. However, it did go to silly land when they positioned the shuttle off the edge of the cliff, causing the dune buggy to ramp off said cliff and into the back "hanger" area of the shuttle.

I agree about the Picard/Data scene. I remember from interviews, Patrick Stewart was irked that that scene was cut, because it really honed in on one of the major themes of the story. Then again, since they cut much of the "good-byes" scenes (except for Riker's), the whole "family theme" was really buried.

If I were to do a fan edit, I would reinsert that scene, and then add the extra stuff at the end. After Data's memorial, have Picard talking to Beverly about her new position, have Riker play the joke on Cmdr. Madden (nix the seat belt gag), and then go into the scene with Picard and B4 as the final scene in the movie. I think that would have made the film stronger and given some more character moments (and reinsert the whole moving-on/family theme).