Big hole in the front of BoP

[Mr_Closet]

That big hole in the front end used to shoot things. I'm not sure if the things that originally came out were technically supposed to be torpedoes (in the sense that they were physical objects) or they were some sort of ball of plasma somehow wrapped up so it wouldn't just disperse.

Anyway, I don't recall seeing or hearing mention in any of the TNG series of a Bird of Prey shooting torpedoes or even balls of hot stuff from the big orifice in the front. Does anyone else? If not, why did they keep it and what could it possibly be for?

I don't recall seeing a D-7 shoot torpedoes since the first Trek Movie, although the Chancellor's ship in Undiscovered Country "threatened" to shoot something by making it's hole glow and crackle with electricity in a very threatening way.

Then in DS9 we see D-7s shooting big red phaser beams out of that hole, which others here have quite reasonably suggested represents an armament upgrade of some sort, which has replaced a projectile launcher with a beam emitter of greater power and versatility (presumably).

So why no funky cool starship rending red phaser beam for the humble BoP? Why does it still only have those crazily proportioned cannons on the ends of it's "wings"? Why no upgrade path for the BoP?

For the purposes of the question, I'm ignoring that mind-bendingly confusing debate about how big the thing actually is and am assuming two sizes. The little one in the movies that carries about 12 Klingons and the bigger ones from TNG that seem to have a more elongated, pointy head and have a crew of 36. If they're bigger and carry more crew and appear to be almost as big as the old D-7's (according to DS9 footage) then why no red beam ray gun?

Cheers

 

[Trevacious]

I've seen a beam come out of Enterprise-D's torpedo launcher, too. I'd say it's the FX team's fault for not knowing their beam emitters from their projectile launchers.

It also used to irk me that, in battle sequences, they seemed oblivious to the fact that the Enterprise was Covered in phaser strips, head to toe. The ship was designed with a great deal of firepower, but I can only think of one or two instances where they utilized more than a single beam.

 

[JoeZhang]

Did I dream it or wasn't there at least one episode where the enterprise-D fires from it's nacelles or somewhere equally odd?

 

[archeryguy1701]

In at least BoBW, if not more episodes, the Enterprise fires from right below the nacelles on the pylon.

 

[Plum]

As far as I know...

Originally that hole, which comes from the D-7 Klingon ships, was supposed to be the deflector dish. However, in ST:TMP that 'hole' was suddenly a torpedo tube. Go figure.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

JoeZhang said:
Did I dream it or wasn't there at least one episode where the enterprise-D fires from it's nacelles or somewhere equally odd?

Some of the Galaxy-class ships have phaser emitters on the nacelles. I don't think the Enterprise-D was one of those ships, though. AFAIK, it was the Venture (shown on DS9) which introduced this feature.

 

[RapidNadion]

The BoP fired a torpedo (or similar projectile) from its nose tube in at least one TNG episode: "Redemption." Can't recall whether it was I or II.

As for varying armaments originating from the same port, I don't consider it too far-fetched. In the case of the D7/K'Tinga, we're talking about a 100+ year-old design. That leaves a lot of room for different variants and upgrades/downgrades over the years. It's not an exact parallel, but current fighter planes can carry many different types of missiles/bombs/pods on the same hardpoints.

Re: phasers from the nacelles in BoBW -- I seem to recall someone here saying that was an FX screwup -- they were supposed to be originating from the "elbow" emitters on the nacelle pylons, AFAIK.

 

[Timo]

Anyway, I don't recall seeing or hearing mention in any of the TNG series of a Bird of Prey shooting torpedoes or even balls of hot stuff from the big orifice in the front.

Does ST:Generations count as "TNG series"? The (midsize, if you believe in such things) BoP was back to its old green-torpedo-firing antics there.

I'd suspect that the green torps of the BoPs are a different type of ordnance from the red ones fired by the battle cruisers. Whenever we see a green torp hit an unshielded ship (that is, ST3:TSfS and ST:GEN), it creates minimal physical damage but knocks out a lot of systems. I wouldn't wonder if the BoP was originally designed to raid commerce, like its dramatic analogue, the early 20th century submarine, did. Torpedoes that merely disable rather than destroy would be very nice for such piracy.

A standard BoP might not be equipped to carry the red destructive ordnance, even if Chang's special ship was. Thus, the BoPs would go to certain types of battle without torpedoes onboard - most notably in the Dominion war where there wasn't much commerce to raid.

Some of the Galaxy-class ships have phaser emitters on the nacelles. I don't think the Enterprise-D was one of those ships, though. AFAIK, it was the Venture (shown on DS9) which introduced this feature.

The Venture in DS9 had those phaser strips atop the nacelles because she had previously been the future Enterprise-D from "All Good Things..". While most of the modifications for "AGT" were removed for the DS9 shooting, those two extra phaser strips remained on the big physical model for at least a while.

The E-D only had phaser strips on the pylon outboard surfaces. Those theoretically could have fired at the Borg cube in "BoBW", but in practice the VFX was drawn all wrong, making it look as if the pylon strips fired through the pylons to hit the same point-blank target as the saucer strip. Not a gigantic gaffe IMHO, though.

Apart from that, there have been a couple of notable "Huh?" phaser effects for Starfleet ships:

-Lower sensor dome for Saratoga in DS9 "Emissary"
-Various emitterless locations for Lakota in DS9 "Paradise Lost"
-Forward torpedo tube for E-D in TNG "Darmok"
-Pylon upper sides for Voyager in VOY "Maneuvers"
-Engine boom top "turbocharger caps" and aft pod airlock door for Archer's Enterprise in various ENT S3 episodes

Yet only the "Darmok" thing is a serious gaffe IMHO. The other beams have come from locations sufficiently close to an existing emitter or emitterlike feature that a little squinting should make things all right again.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Therin of Andor]

Plum said:
in ST:TMP that 'hole' was suddenly a torpedo tube. Go figure.

Introduced in TAS, IIRC.

 

[Timo]

...Yup, some sort of a glowy yellowish bolt think indeed spat out from the bow hole in "More Tribbles, More Troubles".

Dialogue didn't specify this as a torpedo, to be sure. And the bow hole of the TAS ships was distinct from the one on the TOS vessels: apparently taking their lead from an inaccurate AMT scale model, TAS artists gave the bow hole a slightly protruding look, at least on Koloth's Devisor.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Therin of Andor]

Timo said:
...Yup, some sort of a glowy yellowish bolt think indeed spat out from the bow hole in "More Tribbles, More Troubles".

Hence Koloth's cry of "Here I come!"

 

[Forbin]

From BoBW:
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s3/3x26/bestofbothworldsone293.jpg

Yeah, I guess it's supposed to be firing from the pylon emitters, but the beams ARE rendered way too high. I actually didn't notice until it was mentioned here, so I won't hack 'em for it.

 

[Nardpuncher]

JoeZhang said:
Did I dream it or wasn't there at least one episode where the enterprise-D fires from it's nacelles or somewhere equally odd?

You're probably thinking of the TNG episode "Darmok" where the ship fired phasers from the torpedo launcher in the front of the 'neck' between saucer and engineering. Apparently there aren't phaser banks there so that was a goof on the special effects departments behalf.

 

[estrea]

I have never been happy with whomever's decision it was to keep using BoP footage over and over. To me, it was like Klingons had *no* engineers or imagination about, "hm-m-m, we've been using this ship for 50+ years, maybe we should come up with a new one, with better weapons and such, since we're getting the crap kicked out of us by..." Or insert an agent and steal some new technology. Anything would have sufficed.

 

[Plum]

Therin of Andor said:

Plum said:
in ST:TMP that 'hole' was suddenly a torpedo tube. Go figure.

Introduced in TAS, IIRC.

Oh you are shittin' me! I'd no idea. Thanx for the sit-rep Therin. Umm... what episode? Someone? Screenshot links...

 

[D Man]

estrea said:
I have never been happy with whomever's decision it was to keep using BoP footage over and over. To me, it was like Klingons had *no* engineers or imagination about, "hm-m-m, we've been using this ship for 50+ years, maybe we should come up with a new one, with better weapons and such, since we're getting the crap kicked out of us by..." Or insert an agent and steal some new technology. Anything would have sufficed.

And they explode in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, even when separated by about 75 years. I guess that at least shows the Klingon engineers were consistent.