At the end of the day how is your life worse off now than it was 24 hours ago?
Big announcement?
- Thread starter Mr Awe
- Start date
At the end of the day how is your life worse off now than it was 24 hours ago?
Yes, I was hoping for something like a McGann or Tennant guest appearance. But honestly, I find this news preferable to something like a Big Finish announcement or Peter Jackson-directed episode. This glass is at least half-full, as far as I'm concerned.
What would have been bigger in your mind? As Pingfah said a new spin off is about as big as you're likely to get for a show. So what would you consider to be bigger? A film? A guest star? A director? An audio that no one but the interested few will even hear? What would be big enough to not have caused disappointment on the internet and in your mind?
I'm not writing it off. Rather I feel completely underwhelmed by both the hype saying it was "BIG news" and by the description of the premise. I don't see what makes the premise unique (thus why is it necessary or interesting) or even how it relates to Doctor Who aside the vague notion that England is under alien threat (which could be any show).It isn't a notion that immediately leaps out and grabs you, although the involvement of Ness might be quite major seeing as he 'gets' young folk, but lets wait and see before we write it off eh
There's no pre-established character or setting that would make us interested, whereas before spin-offs have had people like Jack and Sarah Jane, places like Torchwood, and immediate history with The Doctor. Sure, Class has Coal Hill School but it could stand in as any school. Plus, one of the worst aspects of last season was the unnecessary grounding to Coal Hill School which established no interesting characters (Danny Pink was terrible and another problem with last season).
It all comes down to what's the point aside from being run by a well-known YA author? As someone else suggested, it feels like this show might have been originally developed with the author in mind but couldn't get any legs until the Doctor Who "element" was tossed in.
Obviously, it's too early to say too much on that matter, but that's how it feels. I return to my initial thought: disappointing, underwhelming, overhyped, and boring. Meh. *shrug*
Point is we fans shouldn't have to be talked into being excited about a project at the same level as BBC's apparent enthusiasm (or at least their Twitter feed).
True, we have been wanting a spin-off, but there are several ideas that already exist which would be interesting to explore with pre-established characters (Paternoster gang, UNIT, Shadow Proclamation, etc.) and this is what we get instead.
Simple: Missing episodes found.
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This is something I posted on Facebook about the reaction to the announcement...
I think much of the bile directed at Class in the last twelve hours has nothing to do with the show or Patrick Ness. Class is just a convenient target, which is unfortunate. I admit that, from reading the press release, I'm a bit indifferent to Class at the moment, but that's because the PR didn't say a whole lot, and that indifference may change as the show goes into production, casting is announced, etc.
Some of the bile is expectations management (or mis-management). When the official Doctor Who Twitter made an announcement that a "BIG," "MASSIVE," "HUGE" announcement was going to be made in a few hours (and made clear it was going to be good news), that gave space for fans' imaginations to run wild -- missing episodes, Paul McGann or John Hurt mini-series, new companion announcement, Moffat's sacking, etc. When the news dropped, Class seemed underwhelming by comparison. It might have been best if the pre-announcement hadn't been made at all.
I'm also seeing a lot of, "It's nice we're getting a spin-off, but I really wanted..." (I think, these days, the favored spin-off would be the Paternoster Gang, and I can't think of anything I'd want less.) The issue here for people tends to be that the PR doesn't suggest any links to the Whoniverse other than the Coal Hill School, especially now that Ness has shot down Clara as a possible character. (Jenna's doing that Queen Victoria series, so I don't see why anyone thought she would be a realistic possibility as part of the cast.) That seems to be rubbing people the wrong way, because there aren't any Coal Hill characters they're clamoring to see again. (For myself, I don't see why this is a problem. DS9 and Voyager didn't recycle characters from TNG outside of a handful. There's a lot to be said for doing something original in the universe so it has its own voice.)
I'd say I'm somewhere between indifferent and intrigued on Class. I'm not excited, but I also don't irrationally hate it. I think opinions will change as more is known, and the irrational hate due to an underwhelming or mismanaged announcement will subside.
I think much of the bile directed at Class in the last twelve hours has nothing to do with the show or Patrick Ness. Class is just a convenient target, which is unfortunate. I admit that, from reading the press release, I'm a bit indifferent to Class at the moment, but that's because the PR didn't say a whole lot, and that indifference may change as the show goes into production, casting is announced, etc.
Some of the bile is expectations management (or mis-management). When the official Doctor Who Twitter made an announcement that a "BIG," "MASSIVE," "HUGE" announcement was going to be made in a few hours (and made clear it was going to be good news), that gave space for fans' imaginations to run wild -- missing episodes, Paul McGann or John Hurt mini-series, new companion announcement, Moffat's sacking, etc. When the news dropped, Class seemed underwhelming by comparison. It might have been best if the pre-announcement hadn't been made at all.
I'm also seeing a lot of, "It's nice we're getting a spin-off, but I really wanted..." (I think, these days, the favored spin-off would be the Paternoster Gang, and I can't think of anything I'd want less.) The issue here for people tends to be that the PR doesn't suggest any links to the Whoniverse other than the Coal Hill School, especially now that Ness has shot down Clara as a possible character. (Jenna's doing that Queen Victoria series, so I don't see why anyone thought she would be a realistic possibility as part of the cast.) That seems to be rubbing people the wrong way, because there aren't any Coal Hill characters they're clamoring to see again. (For myself, I don't see why this is a problem. DS9 and Voyager didn't recycle characters from TNG outside of a handful. There's a lot to be said for doing something original in the universe so it has its own voice.)
I'd say I'm somewhere between indifferent and intrigued on Class. I'm not excited, but I also don't irrationally hate it. I think opinions will change as more is known, and the irrational hate due to an underwhelming or mismanaged announcement will subside.
Would she be bringing her Guinan hats? If not I'm gonna be disappointed.
Positive? How about MISSING EPISODES, or a multi-Doctor special, ala The Two Doctors? How about Captain Jack returning for the last episodes of this series? Anything that actually relates to the Doctor and the show's history in a tangible way?
Seriously, its REALLY presumptious to presume that this is pinnacle of news or that there really isn't a lot of room for actual positive news, cause there is. It hugely depends on the excitement factor, and when my twitter feed has DW Official to tell me that there will be MASSIVE, BIG announcements, news "bigger than anyone imagines." Yeah, with that hype, this news is positively underwhelming.
So really, don't patronize me, or anyone who's expressed similar feelings. Its only feelings, after all - if anything, I freely admit I was duped, and should've known better since the BBC has no idea what kind of fandom they're dealing with when it comes to Doctor Who.
I'm not saying this is the pinnacle of news they could ever come up with but honestly missing episodes will only ever interest a minority of people. I've seen plenty of Classic Who but I wouldn't be bothered by that news, I certainly wouldn't be going out of my way to pay for it. And I'd guess nor would a majority of the current fanbase.
Jack being back, perhaps, but we saw the reaction of the news that River was coming back got. Did anyone really think there would be a special announced without an announcement there would be few episodes next year?
Honestly a new show is good news, at least potentially, but you'd think they announced big news then told everyone they were cutting the episode count to 6 or something.
The last time they announced missing episodes found people got pissed off that it wasn't more.
Same here. And if it gets them off I Carly and that sort of crap, that's a total bonus.
THIS. It was an underwhelming announcement for something the BBC really hyped up and shows a misunderstanding of their audience.
If you're going to make a big announcement like that, make it about something that isn't about a spinoff that no one wanted that is likely to be filled with characters no one knows or cares about.
Coal Hill School is an important place in Doctor Who history but I'll say the same thing I said during The Caretaker...if you're not going to acknowledge its history with the Doctor, then Coal Hill School is just a location that means nothing.
I'm sure everyone has their own reason for being disappointed, but here's mine. The actual news just wasn't worthy of the hype. I think if they just announced the spin-off the reception would've been better. They set everyone's hopes impossibly high.
Also, this spin off idea barely seems connected to Doctor Who. From the description, it sounds like it was an existing idea that couldn't get off the ground on its own but they found a way to sort of tie it to DW. Hey, let's make the school, Coal Hill School! The description said all new villains and monsters. No news of any DW characters. As of now, it's just the school setting.
It may very well be a great series. It just doesn't shout DW spin off too me.
YMMV.
Mr Awe
Another answer I totally agree with. Just announce it as a spinoff instead of hyping it the way the BBC did.
Not so with Doctor Who. I suppose everybody could come with a different list, but here are just a couple of bigger ideas that would be on mine:
1) Lost episode recovery! The biggest possible news for me. This would truly be worthy of the hype even for just one episode, much less a treasure trove!
2) Tom Baker returns for a guess appearance! I suppose anyone could list their own preferred actor.
3) Miniseries featuring past Doctors/Companions. Something more creative than school kids saving an "unprotected" London. What about UNIT. Or, hey maybe a UNIT spin off since in the DW universe they'd actually be protecting London and elsewhere. That would be pretty cool and make more sense too.
This may well be a good series. But they set the expectations way too high. They missed the mark by making a spin off that doesn't really seem that connected to DW based on the their own description.
Mr Awe
Agreed, I have nothing against this TV series but really given Doctor Who has so many other potential big news stories I'm a bit confused why the BBC thought this was deserving of the level of hype it got particularly when the press release is pretty vague.
Doctor Who isn't like Star Trek - it doesn't have a unique established universe to explore - all it has to distinguish it from the real world is the Doctor, his companions and the monsters and nothing on the press release suggests any of them will be making an appearance. Ok some of the monsters probably will but I don't see why Who fans should be expected to be excited by this news in the same way as Torchwood/SJA which were announced with existing characters.
Doctor Who isn't like Star Trek - it doesn't have a unique established universe to explore - all it has to distinguish it from the real world is the Doctor, his companions and the monsters and nothing on the press release suggests any of them will be making an appearance. Ok some of the monsters probably will but I don't see why Who fans should be expected to be excited by this news in the same way as Torchwood/SJA which were announced with existing characters.
I completely agree and you said it far better than my attempts!
The BBC is obvious using resources to create this series. If they want to boost the DW brand, they should use those resources on something that is more tied to the series. UNIT? Paternoster gang? Miniseries with past Doctors? Etc.
Mr Awe
I agree mainly with your analysis but wanted to address this. The advantage that Star Trek has through all of its TV series is that it is one cohesive universe that has an established history, politics, alien species, etc. It's more akin to a real but distinct universe. Really, DW's strength is that it can go anywhere and do anything but it doesn't really have a distinct universe it can claim as its own. It has distinct aliens, villians, etc. But, they seem to show up in a random assortment of places for one off conflicts rather than an ongoing conflict with context and history, say like with Cardisians, Klingons, Romulans.
So, for a DW spin off, it's not enough to say it's set in the same universe. I think you really need some strong carryover element, particularly characters.
Also, the description says London is unprotected. Really, what about UNIT? It doesn't even make sense in the DW universe.
I don't hate the spin off, and I don't think most people are saying that. Most seems to say it was disappointing news. The series might be great. But, I think the BBC would've been better served without the hype (as you said) but, if there is no real connection to DW other than the school, don't cast this series as a spin off of Doctor Who! Let it stand on its own legs.
Mr Awe
Indeed, its the build up to the news that I think we ALL disliked about the news, not the news itself. Its hard to dislike a show without actually having seen it, is it?
This is probably not anywhere yet, but does anyone know if it will be on BBCAmerica?
Also, I'm happy I don't follow these types of announcements, I would have been disappointed probably, too. This is the first I've heard of it and this (BBS) is where I get 95% of my Doctor Who information.
Also, I'm happy I don't follow these types of announcements, I would have been disappointed probably, too. This is the first I've heard of it and this (BBS) is where I get 95% of my Doctor Who information.
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