I think the betrayal by Chuck may have pushed him in that direction, but all the traits of Saul were already there, brimming under the surface. Lots of things could've set that off, but ultimately they would only be a catalyst and not a cause. Jimmy always will be Slippin' Jimmy, and for as much of an egotistical dick Chuck is, he was still right about that. And not because it's a self-fulfilling prophecy or because of Chuck, but because time and again Jimmy has shown these negative traits.
Better Call Saul, the TV series
- Thread starter Temis the Vorta
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I think the betrayal by Chuck may have pushed him in that direction, but all the traits of Saul were already there, brimming under the surface. Lots of things could've set that off, but ultimately they would only be a catalyst and not a cause. Jimmy always will be Slippin' Jimmy, and for as much of an egotistical dick Chuck is, he was still right about that. And not because it's a self-fulfilling prophecy or because of Chuck, but because time and again Jimmy has shown these negative traits.
I don't think that's the only reason he becomes Saul, but it is the main reason it failed not to become Saul.
It's like, Jimmy is recovering from an addiction, and Chuck's rejection caused him to no longer want to recover and to embrace the addiction.
It's like, Jimmy is recovering from an addiction, and Chuck's rejection caused him to no longer want to recover and to embrace the addiction.
Yeah, that was it, she didn't have the heart to tell Jimmy his big brother had backstabbed him.
But Jimmy hadn't been taking shortcuts in his elder law practice, and was ready to work as hard as needed in the Sandpiper case. Chuck's response was snobbery, condescension and rigidness, a refusal to accept that his brother could change or could even approach his exalted level.
When Jimmy showed he was making good-faith efforts to make something of himself, Chuck could have supported him, even if he wasn't sure how it would work out. Instead, he went behind his brother's back to undermine him. Even as Jimmy was supporting Chuck unconditionally through his problems.
I will be interested to see more about the McGills' parents and early life.
I feel there's a difference between taking shortcuts in your work, or pulling a few small-time scams, and willingly becoming the consigliere to a murderous meth kingpin. If Chuck had been more encouraging towards Jimmy and helped him get a job at HHM, maybe he would have succumbed to some of his old ways in time, but it's unlikely that he would have sunk to the depths of depravity that he will as Saul Goodman.
He passed the friggin' BAR EXAM and had enough of a conscience to want to help elderly folks being ripped off!
No, this betrayal by Chuck was what pushed Jimmy down the more nefarious path IMO.
Thank goodness, too!
I actually made this point elsewhere, the parallel to addiction, and I think it's a good one. The thing about addicts is that they are never really no longer addicts. That feeling is always there, and temptation can pull them right back into trouble, regardless of whatever other circumstances are going on. It's best to not discourage resisting addiction, but I don't know if Chuck knew he was doing that. He was still verbally disapproving of Chuck's behavior in that regard. He just isn't being as helpful as he thinks he is. He screwed up.
Like leaving all the paperwork for Chuck to do? Or trying to sucker in clients through blatant advertising and flattery? And meanwhile he followed through with the coffee thing with Mike, and stealing the Kettleman's money? They're schemes, and not really the stuff that HHM is made of, and Jimmy knows it. Why else would he hide the newspaper from Chuck? Further, I believe that Jimmy thinks that his Slippin' Jimmy acts are the cause of Chuck's illness, and he may be right.
Shit, that's just what lawyers do!
That's a fair point, but that could also be seen as an attempt to help Chuck with some "occupational therapy." It does seem that working as a team with his brother has been at the back of Jimmy's mind, he seems to genuinely look up to Chuck.
He was trying to build a practice all on his own. But he was actually doing work for his clients' money, he wasn't scamming them. He's an experienced con-man, he could surely have found was to fleece those folks if he'd wanted to. But he was taking partial payments on $140 of billing.
The "Kettleman's money" was not theirs. it was stolen and, sneaky as it was, what Jimmy did resulted in it returning to where it belonged.
Sure, there's a valid argument that Jimmy is not a good fit for HHM, and the constructive way for Chuck to handle that would have been to come out and tell his brother, instead of smiling to his face and sabotaging him behind his back.
Lets not get too carried away with Jimmy's "philanthropy". Like any lawyer, he spotted money to be made in "protecting the rights" of the elderly and little competition for that money.
Fair points, but Charles had plenty of opportunity to tell these things to Jimmy and take personal responsibility for his judgment. Instead he strung Jimmy along to make sure he could never succeed.
Yeah, make no mistake, Chuck handled things very poorly. I just don't know that he's 100% wrong about Jimmy (regardless of what we know of Saul), and I'm not sure I blame him for whatever Jimmy's actions will end up being.
Yeah, what I like about this show is that the writers make it so that it's possible to see it both ways. Nothing is ever really black and white. I think he was trying to kill two birds with one stone with that move, and I think it worked. But I don't think Chuck sees it that way.
Yeah, it's easy to see that move as the just thing, but it's not the lawful thing, and it's definitely a shortcut. It doesn't really matter if a shortcut generates results because the ends sometimes don't justify the means. That's basically what Chuck didn't want Jimmy to do because it can lead to bad things. What Chuck foolishly didn't realize was that he can't really control Jimmy's impulse to do that, especially not by stringing him along.
Yeah, what I like about this show is that the writers make it so that it's possible to see it both ways. Nothing is ever really black and white. I think he was trying to kill two birds with one stone with that move, and I think it worked. But I don't think Chuck sees it that way.
Yeah, it's easy to see that move as the just thing, but it's not the lawful thing, and it's definitely a shortcut. It doesn't really matter if a shortcut generates results because the ends sometimes don't justify the means. That's basically what Chuck didn't want Jimmy to do because it can lead to bad things. What Chuck foolishly didn't realize was that he can't really control Jimmy's impulse to do that, especially not by stringing him along.
Fuck Chuck.
Yep. Fuck Chuck.
Not to be confused with Michael McKean, who is doing a fantastic job with the role.
But, yeah, fuck Chuck. Whom I suspect has, from a very early age, built his whole self-image on being "better" than his screw-up brother and will do anything to maintain that dynamic.
Not to be confused with Michael McKean, who is doing a fantastic job with the role.
But, yeah, fuck Chuck. Whom I suspect has, from a very early age, built his whole self-image on being "better" than his screw-up brother and will do anything to maintain that dynamic.
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Oh, yeah, Michael McKean is really, really great. I've always liked him so I'm glad he's getting the chance to be in the show.
Has anyone noticed that Kaylee seems older than she should be based on how old she was in Breaking Bad?
Kaylee got reverse-Alexandered.
Kaylee got reverse-Alexandered.
Only if you've actually done it...
I like the way the season ended on a nihilist note. "I know what stopped me, and it'll never stop me again!"
I seems like Saul had mentally coupled morality and respect. Become respectable by becoming moral. His experience with his brother, finding out he had permanently been sorted into the 'Unrespectable' bin, decided that since he can't be respectable he has no reason to be moral.
I seems like Saul had mentally coupled morality and respect. Become respectable by becoming moral. His experience with his brother, finding out he had permanently been sorted into the 'Unrespectable' bin, decided that since he can't be respectable he has no reason to be moral.
I just think he realized that doing things the "right" way only lead him to a bad place. Even with his friend, it went sour when he started talking about going back and doing the right thing.
In his mind, since bad things happen when he tries to be "good," he's saving himself and those around him heartbreak by going in the opposite direction.
Saul Goodman seems to be a balance of "Slippin'" Jimmy and James McCargill. He did take things seriously as a lawyer and was always concerned with at least appearing to follow the rules. However, he also wasn't above working with criminals or taking advantage of a situation.
Incidentally, I just realized with the exception of "Alpine Shephard Boy," the rest of the episode titles in season 1 ended with an "O."
Based on this episode alone, not to mention the entire season, Bob Odenkirk deserves at least an Emmy nomination. Of course, Jonathan Banks deserves a supporting actor nomination, as well.
In his mind, since bad things happen when he tries to be "good," he's saving himself and those around him heartbreak by going in the opposite direction.
Saul Goodman seems to be a balance of "Slippin'" Jimmy and James McCargill. He did take things seriously as a lawyer and was always concerned with at least appearing to follow the rules. However, he also wasn't above working with criminals or taking advantage of a situation.
Incidentally, I just realized with the exception of "Alpine Shephard Boy," the rest of the episode titles in season 1 ended with an "O."
Based on this episode alone, not to mention the entire season, Bob Odenkirk deserves at least an Emmy nomination. Of course, Jonathan Banks deserves a supporting actor nomination, as well.