This episode has many nuances...for example, Dax as pure bimbo, Jake as a street wise guy, O'brien as the guy who digs robots, Quark as the communist, Worf as the honorless guy. And I find Avery Brook's performance when Russel is breaking down moving, and not histrionic and over the top as some people say. His father as a "father" is also brilliant, as is the ending when it is not clear of who is the dreamer and who is the dream. To bad the follow up with Benny Russel was messed.Overall, this episode is the most touching, most realistic, most down to earth Trek episode ever.
Best Trek Episode ever- Far Beyond the stars
- Thread starter EricBlair
- Start date
Certainly a great ep, but the Trek episode best ever? I dunno...
I do not even think it is DS9's best. I would give that particular award to S1's Duet, hands down. I never really think about FBTS, but I think about the implications of Duet all the time.
I do not even think it is DS9's best. I would give that particular award to S1's Duet, hands down. I never really think about FBTS, but I think about the implications of Duet all the time.
thank you for posting.
while I agree that Duet is a great episode, it relies so much on our own experiences of Jews X Nazis 20th during century earth ( I say this while being 1\2 jew). It's main attribute is that we can correlate with something we know (of). Should we take this factor off the episode it is empty. The acting is good (but not oustanding), the FX are lacking, the plot is minimal.
FBTS the stars that us to a whole new level: what is true and what is imagination? how can we live our lives if we know something greater, better is out there?
while I agree that Duet is a great episode, it relies so much on our own experiences of Jews X Nazis 20th during century earth ( I say this while being 1\2 jew). It's main attribute is that we can correlate with something we know (of). Should we take this factor off the episode it is empty. The acting is good (but not oustanding), the FX are lacking, the plot is minimal.
FBTS the stars that us to a whole new level: what is true and what is imagination? how can we live our lives if we know something greater, better is out there?
Good episode should have a point. In my opinion, "Far Beyond the Stars" severely lacked one, although Avery Brooks might disagree.
Good Will Riker
Admiral
"Far Beyond the Stars" -
It was a heavy-handed "Hollywood's self-congratulatory pat on the back in its fight against racism produced 50 years too late" and "a very special episode" that would have been better served had the producers of DS9 shown us a more up-to-date TV episode that deals with white racism against African Americans in modern day 1998 United States of America.
It was almost as bad as that one time when the producers of "Beverly Hills 90210" acted like they were fighting racism when Brandon Walsh (Jason Priestly) dated an African American girl (Vivica A. Fox) for one "very special episode."
Give me a "condescending" break.
Hollywood can fight racism by donating to improve the inner city communities and broken down schools all around them, but they just won't, because the only color they really care about is the flow of "green."
It was a heavy-handed "Hollywood's self-congratulatory pat on the back in its fight against racism produced 50 years too late" and "a very special episode" that would have been better served had the producers of DS9 shown us a more up-to-date TV episode that deals with white racism against African Americans in modern day 1998 United States of America.
It was almost as bad as that one time when the producers of "Beverly Hills 90210" acted like they were fighting racism when Brandon Walsh (Jason Priestly) dated an African American girl (Vivica A. Fox) for one "very special episode."
Give me a "condescending" break.
Hollywood can fight racism by donating to improve the inner city communities and broken down schools all around them, but they just won't, because the only color they really care about is the flow of "green."
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FBTS relies on our understanding of prejudice in the 1950s, so I don't see the difference.
I'm going with In the Pale Moonlight as Trek's best.
Not sure if you're aware of this, but I think O'Brien wasn't just the "guy who digs robots" - he was supposed to be a direct homage to Isaac Asimov (the master of robot stories). The pipe gives it away. I thought that was cool.
EricBlair said:
I think it's really disturbing and upsetting how the political climate in this country is so controlled that you feel you can't make a commentary about the representation of Jews or their conflict with the Nazis without attaching a disclaimer about being 1/2 Jewish.
Would your opinion about Duet or the over-reliance of stories about Jews vs. Nazis be any less valid if it wasn't coming from a Jew? Would it be wrong for you to comment about that if you weren't a Jew?
(Incidentally, how can you be "1/2 Jew?" Do you read the Torah half the time, and the New Testament or Qur'an the other half?)
I think I'm moving this to DS9
Easily one of my favorite episodes. Very strong message, and was also good to see the cast without all of their make-up on. My girlfriend isn't in to Trek at all and she really enjoyed this one more than any of the others I've made her watch.. lol. But in terms of my personal favorites, I would rank this up there in my top 5 favorite episodes, which are Sacrifice of Angels, What You Leave Behind, In the Pale Moonlight, Far Beyond the Stars, and Voyager's Equinox.
I'm ambivalent about this episode--for reasons that tie into why I also did not like Sisko's comments in "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang."
I am of the mind that it was a much stronger statement that racism had been overcome when nothing was said at all. The fact that race could be that much of a TOTAL NONISSUE was frankly inspiring to me.
But when it became clear that the old resentments were still there, it really degraded the whole concept. It's the same thing about modern culture that angers me--because one group's parents have sinned, the children therefore must be punished. Political correctness is a false veneer for resentments that in reality have not actually been dealt with in a healing manner. On DS9, however--prior to "Far Beyond the Stars" and "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang," one got the idea that race wasn't mentioned simply because there was nothing to bring up.
But to find the attitude of spiting people because of their ancestors' sins had continued...that angered me quite a lot. And good grief, taking it out on a freaking HOLOGRAM...
Anyway...I'm sure my bluntness will have offended. But I think to keep silent out of fear would be to bow to the PC culture. Until both sides have the right to speak freely, and to BOTH see each other's perspective as legitimate--change WILL NOT happen.
I am of the mind that it was a much stronger statement that racism had been overcome when nothing was said at all. The fact that race could be that much of a TOTAL NONISSUE was frankly inspiring to me.
But when it became clear that the old resentments were still there, it really degraded the whole concept. It's the same thing about modern culture that angers me--because one group's parents have sinned, the children therefore must be punished. Political correctness is a false veneer for resentments that in reality have not actually been dealt with in a healing manner. On DS9, however--prior to "Far Beyond the Stars" and "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang," one got the idea that race wasn't mentioned simply because there was nothing to bring up.
But to find the attitude of spiting people because of their ancestors' sins had continued...that angered me quite a lot. And good grief, taking it out on a freaking HOLOGRAM...
Anyway...I'm sure my bluntness will have offended. But I think to keep silent out of fear would be to bow to the PC culture. Until both sides have the right to speak freely, and to BOTH see each other's perspective as legitimate--change WILL NOT happen.
I think you've made a very good point there. In making a point about racial equality, Sisko was in fact making a differentiation between him (or at least his ancestors) and the rest of humankind - the very attitude that was supposed to be abhorrent and a thing of the past in Roddenberry's future. It was always a moment that had me scratching my head, as I would've thought after 400 years, it would be looked on as a very grim chapter in our history, but also celebrated that visionaries like Martin Luther King helped set in motion a more 'enlightened' view.
As to whether or not it's the best episode... My vote goes to The Siege of AR-558. I find that final battle scene, showed in slow motion with gentle but powerful music, is one of the most emotional of the series or possibly the franchise. It very subtly conveys a message that while wars and battles make for great, exciting scenes in movies and TV; war is extremely ugly and absolutely not 'cool'. I love the epic DS9 battles as much as anyone, but it was really refreshing to have this alternative view, especially from the redshirt grunts on the frontline that we've come to know as expendable.
Good Will Riker
Admiral
The 44th US President Barack Obama, too.
How could Captain Benjamin Sisko think of Martin Luther King, Jr. but not Barack Obama in "Far Beyond the Stars" and "Badda Bing Badda Bang?" That just doesn't make sense from a selective memory point-of-view.
Good Will Riker
Admiral
Well, Martin Luther King, Jr. was never mentioned by name nor a photograph of him was ever shown, so does that mean he is non-canon too in the Star Trek universe?
Oh dear 
I only plucked a name out of the air...
The real reason Trek hasn't made mention of Obama yet is because we're living through the post Eugenics super secret cover-up years. Nothing from 1987 to about 2020 will make it into Trek references, just in case it sets off a whole new speight of genetic experiments in the 24th century.
The Augments events of 2154 similarly falls into this forced silence. Actually... most of the 2150s apparently fall into this judging by 24th century references.
I only plucked a name out of the air... The real reason Trek hasn't made mention of Obama yet is because we're living through the post Eugenics super secret cover-up years. Nothing from 1987 to about 2020 will make it into Trek references, just in case it sets off a whole new speight of genetic experiments in the 24th century.
The Augments events of 2154 similarly falls into this forced silence. Actually... most of the 2150s apparently fall into this judging by 24th century references.
"Far Beyond the Stars" -
It was a heavy-handed "Hollywood's self-congratulatory pat on the back in its fight against racism produced 50 years too late" and "a very special episode" that would have been better served had the producers of DS9 shown us a more up-to-date TV episode that deals with white racism against African Americans in modern day 1998 United States of America.
It was almost as bad as that one time when the producers of "Beverly Hills 90210" acted like they were fighting racism when Brandon Walsh (Jason Priestly) dated an African American girl (Vivica A. Fox) for one "very special episode."
Give me a "condescending" break.
Hollywood can fight racism by donating to improve the inner city communities and broken down schools all around them, but they just won't, because the only color they really care about is the flow of "green."
What if I said that the idea, conception, development, and direction of the episode was all the brainchild of Avery Brooks? Would it still be a pat on the back or would it be transformed into a call for increased social justice awareness?
Besides, the episode was intended not as a success story about how racism was "defeated" by entertainment, but how racism is still prevalent to this day, and would be in the future.
If we had changed the people's clothes, this story could be about right now. What's insidious about racism is that it is unconscious. Even among these very bright and enlightened characters - a group that includes a woman writer who has to use a man's name to get her work published, and who is married to a brown man with a British accent in 1953 - it's perfectly reasonable to coexist with someone like Pabst. It's in the culture, it's the way people think. So that was the approach we took. I never talked about racism. I just showed how these intelligent people think, and it all came out of them." -- Avery Brooks
"Star Trek at its best, deals with social issues, and though you could say, 'Well, that was prejudice in the fifties,' the truth of the matter is, here we are in the twenty-first century, and it's still there, and that's what we have to be reminded by, and that's what that episode does terrifically well." -- Armin Shimmerman
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