Best First Officer
- Thread starter R. Star
- Start date
You had me going, you really had me going for a moment LOL
My answer is Spock
Kira spent most of the time arguing with Sisko, and even though I liked the Kira character, there are times I am so glad I was not aboard DS9 working with her because she could get annoying.
Riker was pretty good, but his main function on the ship seemed to be seducing women, all the while wanting to be with Dianna.
T'Pol, I hated her so bad, she was the most annoying character in the history of Star Trek. Sorry if that upsets T'Pol fans, but I really couldn't stand her. It seems like all she could do is stick her nose up in the air and walk around acting like she was better than us filthy stinking primates who aren't ready for space flight.
Chakotay, well, he was interesting in the beginning, then they kinda did away with there being two separate crews on the ship, and he became a yes man for Janeway.
But Chakotay and Janeway had great chemistry, I would easily believe them to be husband and wife. You ever see that couple at the grocery store where the wife calls all the shots, and the kids act up, and all the husband does is say "Hey, you heard your mother!" That was Chakotay and Janeway LOL
I don't know much about T'Pol, but I think it's safe to say that Spock is the best of them all. I wonder who would win, if Spock and T'Pol, unarmed, fought against Riker, Chakotay, and Kira, with the latter three each having their choice of H2H weapon.
Drago-Kazov
Fleet Captain
Definitely Chakotay. He was just brilliant at looking like a Vulcan.
He was a lot of things but never a "yes" man. In fact I distinctly remember him strongly opposing Janeway in Scorpion when she wanted to negotiate passage with the Borg.
For me, it's exactly in this order:
*While Chakotay frequently gets a bad rap, he frequently does handle the day-to-day stuff aboard his ship (duty shift rosters, dealing with personnel issues, special problems & projects) and then reports them to Janeway.
- Spock
- Riker
- Chakotay*
- Kira
- T'Pol
*While Chakotay frequently gets a bad rap, he frequently does handle the day-to-day stuff aboard his ship (duty shift rosters, dealing with personnel issues, special problems & projects) and then reports them to Janeway.
Every time I watch this I laugh harder.. and yes if you put the ears on him he would make a fine (lobotomized) Vulcan. Keep in mind too that this is his lover's betrayal, surely a scene that would require more emotion. Tuvok manages to look a lot more vexed by these events than Chak does.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=o98ULd9T0tk[/yt]
You know it's funny I did a review of that exact episode of Voyager, and I did comment on Beltran's acting. The scene that video clips is from is Voyager, Episode 11, season 1, State Of Flux.
The scene I commented on was when Seska was in Sick Bay and Chakotay just sat there like a statue reading his lines and not even blinking.
I would tell you to go to my website and read the review, but it's about 7 pages long and saying "go to my website" feels spammy, so I'll copy and paste the relevant part:
"In Sickbay, Chakotay talks to Seska and he mentions her being Cardassian. She sticks to her story about it being a childhood disease and getting a blood transplant from a Cardassian woman. Chakotay tells her that she won't be able to return to work until they find out who the traitor is.
Here's the thing about this scene. What if this scene took place on a far superior show like DS9. What if this conversation were taking place between Major Kira (played by Nana Visitor) and Odo (played by Rene Auberjonois), I think a scene like this would actually be emotional for the viewer; not just dialogue to advance the plot. And for those of you who don't watch DS9, just imagine this scene being played by Jerri Ryan (Seven of Nine) and Robert Picardo (The Doctor). Or even if the scene was still between Seska (Martha Hackett) and you replaced Beltran with Jonathan Frakes (Riker from TNG).
The problem is Robert Beltran never tried. He just straight up read his lines. And there is debate on whether he hated doing Voyager thus never got any decent scenes, and got fewer and fewer lines as the show progressed, or if it was the fact his character was never treated seriously that made him stop caring about the show. I'll say this, it's the 11th episode of the first season, and already Robert is delivering lines like he's on mood stabilizers.
This scene is at 32:54 to 36:16. Compare it to a scene that isn't even meant to be that emotional, a scene with Odo talking to a little girl about the disappearance of her mother. The DS9 scene in Season 2, Episode 16, Shadowplay, at 16:12 to 20:09.
Compare the acting of Rene Auberjonois (Odo) to this Robert Beltran scene. Notice how alive Odo seems, whereas Chakotay seems like a statue who happens to be speaking words. Come to think of it, even the child Odo was talking to put on a more human, more emotional, more vibrant and alive performance than Chakotay. And again, this DS9 scene isn't some huge tear jerking scene, it's just a casual scene that was meant to have a mildly emotional undertone, like this scene.
What I don't get is why Robert Beltran was ever cast as the character that was supposed to be the second biggest character on the show. It was supposed to be Janeway and Chakotay.
A far better role for Beltran would have been the Tuvac character. At least that way when he read his lines all stiff, dry, without a drop of emotion, it would make sense, he's a Vulcan. And maybe have Tim Russ (Tuvac) play the Chakotay character, after all, Tim can fucking act!
Anyhow, this scene does have a rather powerful line from Seska. When Chakotay says he doesn't know what to believe anymore, and how he is concerned that she was just a Cardassian spy sent to infiltrate him and get his Maquis secrets, Seska says "Let me tell you something. Your secrets weren't good enough. They wouldn't have been worth the trouble for a Cardassian agent. I had only one agenda with you, Chakotay, and I never kept it secret. So, do you believe in me again?""
That's the point I made in a recent Beltran thread. People are often sympathetic to how VOY screwed over his character and how he got bored and "phoned in the lines" but this was the 11nth episode! It's not even good Vulcan material because the excellent Vulcans manage to convey quite a bit of emotion or repressed emotion with their face. Tim Russ, Gary Graham as Soval on ENT.. they are both powerful performances. Repressed emotion is a different thing than the absence of emotion and good acting can portray that.
The Doctor got more and more scenes and story lines and I do think they wrote for him because Picardo was so great and lit up the screen. The other actors really shine interacting with him as well. I do suspect Chakotay was written out of being a major character and into a yes man because he just wasn't going to bring enough to the part.
I agree with you 100%
I agree that Vulcans not having emotion doesn't mean that the actor isn't expected to use tone of voice and facial expressions to convey a subconscious emotional presence. Tim Russ as Tuvac was pretty good at this.
Leonard Nimoy is Spock is still the best at playing a Vulcan, and he was great at letting you know there were feelings, just repressed.
And it boarders on Sacrilige to say that someone did this better than Nimoy, but Brent Spiner as Data was even better. Though Data wasn't a vulcan, he was a creature without emotion, and he did the perfect job of balancing subtle emotional hints through facial expressions, and yet appear to be only a sophisticated machine processing data and responding logically. The whole game of "I play a character that has no feeling, but I am still going to be 'alive' enough for the audience to relate to" was played best by Spiner. But Nimoy was also really good at it.
And I agree that The Doctor became a more used character as a result of Picardo's wonderful acting ability.
People often complain that the last few seasons of Voyager focused on The Doctor, Seven, and Janeway. However, when you think about it, those were the 3 best actors on Voyager. Even if you don't like the Janeway character, there's no denying Kate Mulgrew was a great actor.
I particularly love the Voyager episode where The Doctor is downloaded into Seven's body, and you see Seven walking around acting like The Doctor. This was a wonderful job by Jeri Ryan.
And I loved the episode were Mulgrew played a character of one of Janeway's relatives. In that episode, you totally forgot that was Janeway, because Mulgrew is so versatile that she had none of the traits of Janeway. And in the episode, Workforce, where she had her mind erased to think she was someone else, it was the same thing, you really forget that's Janeway, even with that god awful voice, Mulgrew can play a million different people.
So the complaint that Picardo, Ryan, and Mulgrew got the most dialogue in the last few seasons is true, but for good reason, they were the best actors Voyager had.
the thing is, I want to like Beltran, I really do. He had a great look, I think he would have made a wonderful gangster or street tough detective. He just had that strong handsome masculine look to him.
I've seen him in interviews and he is full of life and character. It's a shame we don't see character in Chakotay.
And Beltran works really hard to promote Down Syndrome Association of Los Angeles
and is heavily involved in charity, so I believe he is a good person. I really have nothing against the man, even for that famous interview where he is bashing Trek (though I don't think it was a wise move on his part). A lot of his criticisms of Voyager was legit. But when all is said and done, his acting as Chakotay was stiff, really wooden.
Beltran has mentioned that him and Garret Wang (Harry Kim) were told to tone down their acting to allow the aliens and Janeway to shine brighter, and that any flamboyance would take away from the characters around them.
This sounds ridiculous, and yet, considering what I know about Berman and Braga, this does sound like something they'd say.
So who knows, maybe those two really were told to tone it down and be more wooden. As stupid as that sounds, I wouldn't put it past Rick Berman LOL
But hey, I don't know any of these people in real life, so who knows what the real story is.
I think Spiner was certainly better at conveying a whole lot of emotion and thought process beneath the surface than Nimoy, and I think Tim Russ was better as well. Nimoy IS Spock though and that's all we need 
I don't dislike Chakotay and I do think he had some charisma with Janeway that was quite visible and worked, the romantic undercurrent. Mulgrew really fought for there to be no romance and I think the undercurrent was Chakotay's best character contribution. In story though his wimpy angry warrior deal was never going to be enough for her. When she got to program her own ideal man in Fair Haven this is what she requested:
JANEWAY: Computer, display Fair Haven character Michael Sullivan. Adjust his parameters to the following specifications. Give him the education of a nineteenth century third year student at Trinity College.
COMPUTER: Modification complete.
JANEWAY: Now, access the character's interactive subroutines. Make him more provocative.
COMPUTER: Specify.
JANEWAY: Give him a more complicated personality.
COMPUTER: Specify.
JANEWAY: More outspoken, more confident, not so reserved, and make him more curious about the world around him.
More provocative was just what Chakotay wasn't.
Still he was easy on the eye and a good officer.
I don't dislike Chakotay and I do think he had some charisma with Janeway that was quite visible and worked, the romantic undercurrent. Mulgrew really fought for there to be no romance and I think the undercurrent was Chakotay's best character contribution. In story though his wimpy angry warrior deal was never going to be enough for her. When she got to program her own ideal man in Fair Haven this is what she requested:
JANEWAY: Computer, display Fair Haven character Michael Sullivan. Adjust his parameters to the following specifications. Give him the education of a nineteenth century third year student at Trinity College.
COMPUTER: Modification complete.
JANEWAY: Now, access the character's interactive subroutines. Make him more provocative.
COMPUTER: Specify.
JANEWAY: Give him a more complicated personality.
COMPUTER: Specify.
JANEWAY: More outspoken, more confident, not so reserved, and make him more curious about the world around him.
More provocative was just what Chakotay wasn't.
Still he was easy on the eye and a good officer.
I'm afraid that you've all missed the boat on this one. My vote goes to first officer Pavel Chekhov of the USS Reliant. His scream was epic and legendary. Only a real first officer could have a bug crawl into his ear, scream, and then he resisted the urge to disintegrate Admiral Kirk with his phaser, but then later on be trusted enough to go back to Kirk's side on the Enterprise. Plus, no one...not even Kirk himself could pull off wearing a rug on his head quite like him. His hairstyle in TOS was WAY ahead of his time. But since it's not an option....Spock. He has green blood and can do that neck pinch in a pinch.
Chekov was a first officer in Wrath Of Khan? I guess I wasn't paying attention.
My favorite Chekov moment was "We're looking for the nuclear wessles"
Chekov was a first officer in Wrath Of Khan? I guess I wasn't paying attention.
My favorite Chekov moment was "We're looking for the nuclear wessles"
Yes he was. At the beginning of the movie when you first see the USS Reliant , Chekov records a first officer's log for the Reliant. Check it out.
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