Best Borg stories ever!!

[Anwar]

The Trek fandom speculates for years that they can use the transporters as weapons, and constantly wish that this would happen.

Trek finally does so, and gets nothing but complaints when its EXACTLY what folks want.

You just can't win.

And of course, if it had been TNG or DS9 using that method to destroy a Romulan/Ferengi/Cardassian/Dominion ship the fandom would gush all over that and say how wonderful it was, even if it was done EXACTLY the same way as VOY.

I suppose you'd be happier if they'd spent the whole 2-parter of "Dark Frontier" running like cowards from the Probe constantly terrified over being assimilated until they make a sun go nova and destroy it in the shockwave, or they find some alien tech that can teleport entire starships and they end up using it to teleport the Probe into a Black Hole (which burns out the alien teleporter so they can't use it anymore) which destroys it instantly, or they assemble a flotilla of 20 starships which all get wasted battling the Probe before they destroy it with raw firepower.

Heaven forbid they just come out and say to our faces "Smaller Borg ships like the Probe aren't any more powerful than normal starships and can be destroyed just as easily." and just have them destroy it easily and stay in the rules they established.

To win in "BOBW," the Enterprise crew needed:
1. an assimilated crewmember

Any Borg Drone would have sufficed, they just got Picard back because they thought if said Drone was their ally it would make it easier since they didn't really know what to do.

2. A highly advanced android to help break into the Borg network

Data was primitive compared to the Borg, any kind of telepathy to link with a Borg mind would have worked. If it had been Spock mind-melding with an assimilated Kirk it would have had the same result.

3. they needed Picard to be fighting through his "Borg programming" and give his suggestion

His suggestion was just that, a suggestion. Given more time they could have come to that command on their own.

4. A daring and innovative plan to rescue the assimilated crewmember which barely worked

You even admitted earlier that the plan worked for dramatic necessity, and that the Borg should've destroyed the Enterprise as easily as it destroyed the other Starships at Wolf 359.

Yes, technically, the Borg should have had protections against this. But, they made it look difficult and clever enough that there just wasn't as much of an objection.

So if "Dark Frontier" had portrayed the crew as incompetent enough that it would such an undertaking to destroy a freaking PROBE, you wouldn't hate it. I get it.

 

[Matt4511]

I suppose you'd be happier if they'd spent the whole 2-parter of "Dark Frontier" running like cowards from the Probe constantly terrified over being assimilated ...

Why would you "suppose I'd be happier" with that when my last two posts have explicitly said that I have no objection to Voyager destroying the probe and that I find it plausible?

I feel like I'm a stand-in for a conversation you're really having with yourself, with me in the role of the ominous, amorphous "Trek Fandom."

 

[Anwar]

Fine, if they'd cut out the Drone walking towards the torpedo and just have an exterior shot of the ship blowing up with the crew explaining that they beamed the torpedo onboard, would that make it less "silly"?

 

[Tiberius]

I suppose you'd be happier if they'd spent the whole 2-parter of "Dark Frontier" running like cowards from the Probe constantly terrified over being assimilated ...

Why would you "suppose I'd be happier" with that when my last two posts have explicitly said that I have no objection to Voyager destroying the probe and that I find it plausible?

I feel like I'm a stand-in for a conversation you're really having with yourself, with me in the role of the ominous, amorphous "Trek Fandom."

I think it's because you clearly stated that you think the whole idea of beaming a bomb on board to destroy the probe was silly.

However, history has shown that putting a bomb inside something and then blowing it up is a good way to destroy it. I honestly don't see why it is silly.

Is it that they beamed it aboard? If so, why don't you complain when they beam people onto a Borg ship? Is it the fact it was a photon torpedo? But if so, what would you suggest they beam over instead?

 

[Matt4511]

Fine, if they'd cut out the Drone walking towards the torpedo and just have an exterior shot of the ship blowing up with the crew explaining that they beamed the torpedo onboard, would that make it less "silly"?

Yes and no. I still think any Borg vessel being susceptible to attacks via beamed-in ordnance is silly. But it compounded the silliness when Voyager was lackadaisical about carrying out the attack.

For me, it would have made sense if Voyager had tried to beam a torpedo on and instantly detonate, without success due to the Borg not being idiots. At least Voyager would have given it a serious try.

Why would you "suppose I'd be happier" with that when my last two posts have explicitly said that I have no objection to Voyager destroying the probe and that I find it plausible?

I think it's because you clearly stated that you think the whole idea of beaming a bomb on board to destroy the probe was silly.

However, history has shown that putting a bomb inside something and then blowing it up is a good way to destroy it. I honestly don't see why it is silly.

Is it that they beamed it aboard? If so, why don't you complain when they beam people onto a Borg ship? Is it the fact it was a photon torpedo? But if so, what would you suggest they beam over instead?

Anwar is certainly free to disagree with me that attack-by-beamed-in-torpedo is silly. Couldn't care less about that.

But what was odd was Anwar's repeated statements, despite my having explicitly said otherwise, that Voyager destroying the probe was silly. I have no trouble believing Voyager can defeat a probe in battle. I find the method shown to have been silly.

As to your points, I'd like to nominate you for a Counsellor Troi 'I Sense Anger' Award for Stating the Obvious when you mention that explosives inside something damages said something.

I have complained about the ease with which the Borg allow people to beam onto their ships. It might in theory have made sense — not really but let's be generous — the first few times. But afterwards, anytime Federation personnel tried to transport over, the Borg should have tried to block it. And they indeed did adapt that way in BoBW II — Data and Worf couldn't beam onto the cube until they approached it in a shuttle. Ditto in that Voyager ep with the tactical cube — Janeway and Co. couldn't beam onto the cube from the Delta Flyer until Voyager busted up a Borg shield generator or something.

However tense the Borg are about letting Starfleet crew onto their ship, imagine how uptight they'd be about a giant bomb. Why didn't the Borg instantly beam it back? Pop a forcefield around it? Vaporize it? The Borg are more advanced, faster, better, smarter. Having a bomb materialize on their ship shouldn't be something they need to ponder.

And then insult was added to injury by Voyager's crew being lazy about how they went out their attack. I still think it should have failed, but Voyager might as well have failed after trying really hard.

 

[Tiberius]

But what was odd was Anwar's repeated statements, despite my having explicitly said otherwise, that Voyager destroying the probe was silly. I have no trouble believing Voyager can defeat a probe in battle. I find the method shown to have been silly.

As to your points, I'd like to nominate you for a Counsellor Troi 'I Sense Anger' Award for Stating the Obvious when you mention that explosives inside something damages said something.

I'm sorry, but when someone thinks that it's silly to put a bomb inside something when you want to blow it up, sometimes the obvious needs to be said.

I have complained about the ease with which the Borg allow people to beam onto their ships. It might in theory have made sense — not really but let's be generous — the first few times. But afterwards, anytime Federation personnel tried to transport over, the Borg should have tried to block it. And they indeed did adapt that way in BoBW II — Data and Worf couldn't beam onto the cube until they approached it in a shuttle. Ditto in that Voyager ep with the tactical cube — Janeway and Co. couldn't beam onto the cube from the Delta Flyer until Voyager busted up a Borg shield generator or something.

From the script of "The Best of Both Worlds"

47 INT. TRANSPORTER ROOM

O'Brien with Data and Worf...

O'BRIEN
The Borg have adapted their
electromagnetic field to prevent
main Transporter functions, sir...​

However tense the Borg are about letting Starfleet crew onto their ship, imagine how uptight they'd be about a giant bomb. Why didn't the Borg instantly beam it back? Pop a forcefield around it? Vaporize it? The Borg are more advanced, faster, better, smarter. Having a bomb materialize on their ship shouldn't be something they need to ponder.

Easy enough to include a transport scrambler set to activate half a second after the torpedo materialises.