BERMAN WAS RIGHT
- Thread starter RobertScorpio
- Start date
Re: Mirror to us; no more
TNG's ratings continued their upward trend until the last season actually.
http://www.geocities.com/hblur/cyrus/trekratings.html
TNG's ratings continued their upward trend until the last season actually.
http://www.geocities.com/hblur/cyrus/trekratings.html
Re: Mirror to us; no more
Don't let facts stand in the way of a good rant.
Don't let facts stand in the way of a good rant.
Re: Mirror to us; no more
Bummer.cardinal biggles said:
Don't let facts stand in the way of a good rant.
Re: Mirror to us; no more
You're forgetting Hitler.
You're forgetting Hitler.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Oh I agree...writing for the masses should not be a requirement. Heck, I loved TREK V!!!
No, but writing for a dwindling, select group of people is a sure-fire way to ensure the eventual death of your series, if nothing else through attrition. And writing poorly will even drive them off (*cough* NEMESIS *cough* ENTERPRISE *cough*)
RobertScorpio
Pariah
I couldn't disagree more. DS9, IMO, was far better written than TNG. TNG's last two seasons were on cruise control, and it showed. DS9 got better as each year went on. The characters all grew and evolved, far more than their TNG counter parts.
The quality of the writing is a subjective matter, but the ratings are not; TNG's sixth season was the peak, and it was downhill from there. Certainly there were spikes with the arrival of Worf on DS9, the start of VOY & ENT, but it's been a general downward trend from '92 to '05.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Well, ratings are subjective as well. Or, by using success as the final meter, Titanic is the greatest movie of all time; Michael Jackson (Thriller) is the greatest album of all time. And BayWatch is better than TNG because it got better ratings in pure numbers as well.
Ratings aren't subjective but they can't be used to prove or disprove quality but I do think that less people watching Star Trek or any other show over the years does mean something. And I do think that DS9, Voyager and Enterprise were attempts th recreate the success they had with TNG and they were just copies of copies in the end and while they did produce some good and bad storylines over the years I do think that Star Trek wasn't the same after TNG ended for whatever reasons.
I think DS9 was different enough, even with Worf and O'Brien, and even after they added the Defiant that it stands on its own apart from TNG. But VOY and ENT definitely seemed like forced attempts to recreate TNG's success, and I think that hurt them both creatively and with the number of viewers.
Well the whole point of DS9 was to create a series to replace TNG when it ended and they seemed to want to correct what they thought was wrong with TNG while continuing it's success but I don't think they knew what made TNG a hit. So maybe they were trying to mirror TNG instead of directly copying it but it was different enough for people to start tuning out almost as soon as DS9 started.
As time as gone by though TNG has remained a stronger series IMO than DS9 has turned out to be and even Voyager isn't seen as being as bad of a series as it was seen as being when it originally aired.
As time as gone by though TNG has remained a stronger series IMO than DS9 has turned out to be and even Voyager isn't seen as being as bad of a series as it was seen as being when it originally aired.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
DS9 vs TNG
Again we don't agree. I don't think TNG is aging well at all. And I think DS9s more complex story writing is holding up quite well. And for whatever reason, it seems to me that the fans of TREK prefer TNG over DS9. Poll after poll shows this to be true.
TNG is more vanilla, thus more appealing to the masses. But ratings success can not be the final say. Because, as I have mentioned elswhere, Baywatch got higher ratings than TNG. So does that make Baywatch the better show? I hope not.
And it must also be pointed out that TNG came around with very little other choices to watch in terms of first run sydication and network scif. DS9 had to deal with SEAQUEST..BABYLON 5..Stargate.., not to mention TNG, and far more sydicated competition.
TNG, to me, never had really deep character growth. It has some, but not as much as DS9. DS9 is great because everyone, from Sisko to Nog, grew in ways no one could have predict. When you can't predict where a show is going, I think it mirrors reality.
TNG may garner all the numbers and get all the hoopla. But for me? DS9 was a labor of love for the fans of TREK who were ready for more than just retreaded, but improved TOS.
Again we don't agree. I don't think TNG is aging well at all. And I think DS9s more complex story writing is holding up quite well. And for whatever reason, it seems to me that the fans of TREK prefer TNG over DS9. Poll after poll shows this to be true.
TNG is more vanilla, thus more appealing to the masses. But ratings success can not be the final say. Because, as I have mentioned elswhere, Baywatch got higher ratings than TNG. So does that make Baywatch the better show? I hope not.
And it must also be pointed out that TNG came around with very little other choices to watch in terms of first run sydication and network scif. DS9 had to deal with SEAQUEST..BABYLON 5..Stargate.., not to mention TNG, and far more sydicated competition.
TNG, to me, never had really deep character growth. It has some, but not as much as DS9. DS9 is great because everyone, from Sisko to Nog, grew in ways no one could have predict. When you can't predict where a show is going, I think it mirrors reality.
TNG may garner all the numbers and get all the hoopla. But for me? DS9 was a labor of love for the fans of TREK who were ready for more than just retreaded, but improved TOS.
DS9's first season was very TNG like. Fortunately they changed that in season 2.
Re: DS9 vs TNG
Vocal Trek fans on this board might feel that way about DS9 but the poll numbers are low even for the population of the board and it's not a general feeling among Star Trek fans IMO.
TNG has continued to gain new fans ans stay on the air every since it first started in 1987 DS9 OTOH was beiing cut off the air before their final seasons in some markets during their original run and it's future on Spike is shakey as well.
DS9's storylines and characters aren't attracting people the way TNG has continued to do over the years. I'm sorry but DS9 was that much of a standout show it would've been that way when it originally aired but they trouble beating the other shows in the ratings and creatively as well.
I don't see the "vanilla" complaint myself especially seeing as how the attempts to surpass TNG with the other shows seems to have fallen flat over the years. But then I nver did think that DS9 was all that great and Voyager and Enterprise is all that bad.
Vocal Trek fans on this board might feel that way about DS9 but the poll numbers are low even for the population of the board and it's not a general feeling among Star Trek fans IMO.
TNG has continued to gain new fans ans stay on the air every since it first started in 1987 DS9 OTOH was beiing cut off the air before their final seasons in some markets during their original run and it's future on Spike is shakey as well.
DS9's storylines and characters aren't attracting people the way TNG has continued to do over the years. I'm sorry but DS9 was that much of a standout show it would've been that way when it originally aired but they trouble beating the other shows in the ratings and creatively as well.
I don't see the "vanilla" complaint myself especially seeing as how the attempts to surpass TNG with the other shows seems to have fallen flat over the years. But then I nver did think that DS9 was all that great and Voyager and Enterprise is all that bad.
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