On the other hand, its original audience is now 2 1/2 years older than it was when the show premiered. So why shouldn't the show grow up along with its fans?
BEN 10: ALIEN FORCE -- DCAU fans take note!
- Thread starter Christopher
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On the other hand, its original audience is now 2 1/2 years older than it was when the show premiered. So why shouldn't the show grow up along with its fans?
You've got a point. My son seems to like the show despite the change in the characters age and show attitude. Time will tell.
With "Kevin's Big Score," written by Matt Wayne and directed by Butch Lukic, we get our first episode not written by Dwayne McDuffie. And it's still a pretty good one. Some nice character tension and conflict -- although to be honest, I think maybe the ending redeemed Kevin a little too much. I never got the sense from the pilot that he'd really reformed, just that he was tagging along because he liked Gwen.
I guess that "living crystal" Volcanis forced Kevin to touch was the same kind of crystal that Pyrosapiens (like Diamondhead) are made of. If so, I wonder why it's as rare in this galactic sector as Volcanis claimed. I mean, Ben in Diamondhead form must've left a ton of the stuff lying around after shooting it at things in his various battles.
The lines about Grandpa Max buying a new Rust Bucket to replace the old one explains a continuity issue I hadn't even thought of; the original Rust Bucket was destroyed in the live-action Race Against Time movie. The mention of that is a subtle acknowledgment that the movie is canonical. I wonder, did the developers of this show not know that would happen in the movie and have to fix the error later, or did they know and just decide that the Rust Bucket was too iconic to do without?
Anyway, now I'm wondering if there will be any followup on the Plumber tech that Kevin's rodentlike "friend" stripped from the Rust Bucket and sold. Although clearly the main arc is going to be finding the other superpowered "Plumbers' kids" and assembling the team. Honestly, I felt the ending was weak -- all this trouble to get this holomessage from Max, and that's all it is? Heck, they could've figured out on their own that that was a good idea.
And what is it with all these Plumbers' kids being part-alien? Just how much interspecies boinking were the Plumbers engaging in all these years? What, is there a universal custom of rishathra that Max never told Ben and Gwen about because they were too young? (See Niven's The Ringworld Engineers: rishathra is ritual sex as a way of closing a deal, like a handshake only a whooollle lot more so.)
Omnitrix aliens this week: the return of Echo Echo, who's a little less creepy-robot-monotone and has a bit more personality, and the introduction of Big Chill, an eerie giant-moth sort of beast with ice breath and intangibility (sort of like if Iceman and Shadowcat had a kid, which is within the realm of possibility based on the movies). I'm kind of wondering why Ben went to Big Chill a second time for the climactic confrontation. I can see why it was necessary for story reasons; the big reveal wouldn't have worked as well if we'd seen Gwen show up with some unfamiliar alien standing next to her. The audience had to know it was Ben. But in-story, I don't see why he would've chosen that form for that particular confrontation.
Meanwhile, I have the distinct impression that the 10-minute limit on the Omnitrix is gone. Last week gave the impression that Ben can change back to himself at will, and this week it seemed that Echo Echo's various parts were unconscious for considerably more than 10 minutes before they reassembled and reverted to Ben. I guess that means we won't have any more of the running gag where the Omnitrix gave him the wrong alien, either. Presumably he has more control over this model, either because of the still-unexplained upgrade or because of untold experiences he had years ago before finally removing it. (Indeed, if he gained fuller control over it back then, it could explain how he was able to remove it.)
I guess that "living crystal" Volcanis forced Kevin to touch was the same kind of crystal that Pyrosapiens (like Diamondhead) are made of. If so, I wonder why it's as rare in this galactic sector as Volcanis claimed. I mean, Ben in Diamondhead form must've left a ton of the stuff lying around after shooting it at things in his various battles.
The lines about Grandpa Max buying a new Rust Bucket to replace the old one explains a continuity issue I hadn't even thought of; the original Rust Bucket was destroyed in the live-action Race Against Time movie. The mention of that is a subtle acknowledgment that the movie is canonical. I wonder, did the developers of this show not know that would happen in the movie and have to fix the error later, or did they know and just decide that the Rust Bucket was too iconic to do without?
Anyway, now I'm wondering if there will be any followup on the Plumber tech that Kevin's rodentlike "friend" stripped from the Rust Bucket and sold. Although clearly the main arc is going to be finding the other superpowered "Plumbers' kids" and assembling the team. Honestly, I felt the ending was weak -- all this trouble to get this holomessage from Max, and that's all it is? Heck, they could've figured out on their own that that was a good idea.
And what is it with all these Plumbers' kids being part-alien? Just how much interspecies boinking were the Plumbers engaging in all these years? What, is there a universal custom of rishathra that Max never told Ben and Gwen about because they were too young? (See Niven's The Ringworld Engineers: rishathra is ritual sex as a way of closing a deal, like a handshake only a whooollle lot more so.)
Omnitrix aliens this week: the return of Echo Echo, who's a little less creepy-robot-monotone and has a bit more personality, and the introduction of Big Chill, an eerie giant-moth sort of beast with ice breath and intangibility (sort of like if Iceman and Shadowcat had a kid, which is within the realm of possibility based on the movies). I'm kind of wondering why Ben went to Big Chill a second time for the climactic confrontation. I can see why it was necessary for story reasons; the big reveal wouldn't have worked as well if we'd seen Gwen show up with some unfamiliar alien standing next to her. The audience had to know it was Ben. But in-story, I don't see why he would've chosen that form for that particular confrontation.
Meanwhile, I have the distinct impression that the 10-minute limit on the Omnitrix is gone. Last week gave the impression that Ben can change back to himself at will, and this week it seemed that Echo Echo's various parts were unconscious for considerably more than 10 minutes before they reassembled and reverted to Ben. I guess that means we won't have any more of the running gag where the Omnitrix gave him the wrong alien, either. Presumably he has more control over this model, either because of the still-unexplained upgrade or because of untold experiences he had years ago before finally removing it. (Indeed, if he gained fuller control over it back then, it could explain how he was able to remove it.)
Come on, isn't anybody watching this?
This week we got "All that Glitters," written by Bob Goodman (who did a number of Superman: TAS episodes as Robert Goodman), directed by Dan Riba. Not a great episode, but it had some interesting character stuff. I was surprised that Gwen was so open to Kevin about wanting him to ask her out. In the pilot, I got the impression the interest wasn't mutual, although last week's episode left me unsure. Now it's definite. At least I didn't expect it to come out in the open so quickly.
The romantic rivalry/potential ally who turns out evil storyline was pretty much by the numbers. I'm pretty sure Wil Wheaton played Mike Morningstar, but I couldn't confirm it since the end credits were for the wrong episode (or perhaps for the season in general, since I think they listed way too many names for any one episode). At any rate, he's more talented as a voice actor these days than he was as a child actor on TNG.
As usual, we only got one new Omnitrix alien this week, and we barely got to see him at all. According to Wikipedia, he's called Chromastone, and is a near-invulnerable living crystal with the ability to absorb energy and expel it as laser blasts (combining Diamondhead with X-Men's Bishop, basically). But the only thing he did in this episode was pretty much to stand there and say "I'm a conductor." (Oh, really? With what orchestra?) We also got a blink-and-you'll-miss-it second appearance by Jetray. I can understand them not using a new alien for such a brief appearance, but if they're going to use three aliens in an episode, it would've been nice if they'd written it so that two were new ones.
I guess the idea was to take Ben and Kevin out of action so that Gwen would have to save the day. And I'm totally fine with that -- except they didn't adequately explain how she did it. Was it because of her magical (or alien) powers? Was it out of love and protectiveness toward Ben and Kevin? Also, what did she do? It seems that she somehow flipped the "reverse" switch on Morningstar's powers, so that when the other zombie girls touched him, they reabsorbed their energy rather than the reverse.
Hmm, in retrospect, this episode really wasn't that impressive, though it didn't bother me much while watching it. Oh, well.
This week we got "All that Glitters," written by Bob Goodman (who did a number of Superman: TAS episodes as Robert Goodman), directed by Dan Riba. Not a great episode, but it had some interesting character stuff. I was surprised that Gwen was so open to Kevin about wanting him to ask her out. In the pilot, I got the impression the interest wasn't mutual, although last week's episode left me unsure. Now it's definite. At least I didn't expect it to come out in the open so quickly.
The romantic rivalry/potential ally who turns out evil storyline was pretty much by the numbers. I'm pretty sure Wil Wheaton played Mike Morningstar, but I couldn't confirm it since the end credits were for the wrong episode (or perhaps for the season in general, since I think they listed way too many names for any one episode). At any rate, he's more talented as a voice actor these days than he was as a child actor on TNG.
As usual, we only got one new Omnitrix alien this week, and we barely got to see him at all. According to Wikipedia, he's called Chromastone, and is a near-invulnerable living crystal with the ability to absorb energy and expel it as laser blasts (combining Diamondhead with X-Men's Bishop, basically). But the only thing he did in this episode was pretty much to stand there and say "I'm a conductor." (Oh, really? With what orchestra?) We also got a blink-and-you'll-miss-it second appearance by Jetray. I can understand them not using a new alien for such a brief appearance, but if they're going to use three aliens in an episode, it would've been nice if they'd written it so that two were new ones.
I guess the idea was to take Ben and Kevin out of action so that Gwen would have to save the day. And I'm totally fine with that -- except they didn't adequately explain how she did it. Was it because of her magical (or alien) powers? Was it out of love and protectiveness toward Ben and Kevin? Also, what did she do? It seems that she somehow flipped the "reverse" switch on Morningstar's powers, so that when the other zombie girls touched him, they reabsorbed their energy rather than the reverse.
Hmm, in retrospect, this episode really wasn't that impressive, though it didn't bother me much while watching it. Oh, well.
I've been watching it via On-Demand, thanks to your heads up.
It almost feels as if the DCAU is back from the dead. Hell, I'm starting to get into the original series also thanks to this.
Now, only if Toon Disney wouldn't edit out women being stuck and "blood" from Superman/Batman TAS, I'd be back in the '90s.
It almost feels as if the DCAU is back from the dead. Hell, I'm starting to get into the original series also thanks to this.
Now, only if Toon Disney wouldn't edit out women being stuck and "blood" from Superman/Batman TAS, I'd be back in the '90s.
Actually, it's kind of hard to find an animated adventure series these days that doesn't have DCAU veterans playing key roles. Ben 10: AF has Dwayne McDuffie, Dan Riba, Butch Lukic, and others; Spectacular Spider-Man has directors like Dave Bullock and the trio of composers who did most later DCAU shows after being Shirley Walker's proteges on B:TAS; and Avatar: The Last Airbender has talented directors/storyboarders such as Joaquim Dos Santos and Lauren Montgomery. And the upcoming Wolverine and the X-Men is produced by Boyd Kirkland, who was one of B:TAS's best directors.
That explains the hype for Avatar. I'm definitely checking that out now. 
Oh, that only just begins to explain the hype for Avatar. The main creative minds behind the show, Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko, are two people I never heard of before, but they've created the best and most revolutionary animated series since B:TAS itself. They pretty much came out of nowhere aside from doing some work on Family Guy (which astounds me, because I loathe FG), plus a few King of the Hill episodes and other scattered credits in DiMartino's case. And none of the writers are DCAU vets as far as I'm aware. (Oh, but in addition to the directors I mentioned, they also have longtime DC/WB veteran Andrea Romano as voice director.)
I was not surprised by the Gwen and Kevin romance. I remember commenting on their relationship in the first ep. I even suggested that it was Gwen who freed Kevin from the null void. The episode itself was alright. I like how it showed that just because this was a plumber's kid, that did not mean he was a good guy. Next week's ep looks fun.
Zombie girls in school uniforms? 
I'm still not feeling this one yet, it feels really flat, is this the same team that did the first series?
I'm still not feeling this one yet, it feels really flat, is this the same team that did the first series?
No. As stated at the beginning of this thread, it's done by veterans of the DC Animated Universe and other WB shows: produced by Glen Murakami (The New Batman/Superman Adventures, Batman Beyond, Justice League, Teen Titans, The Batman), story-edited by Dwayne McDuffie (Static Shock, Justice League Unlimited), and with directors including Dan Riba (the entire DCAU from Batman: TAS onward) and Butch Lukic (TNB/SA, Batman Beyond, Justice League). Pretty much the only creative people still involved from the original show are the two executive producers from Cartoon Network Studios, Tramm Wigzell and Sam Register.
The search for Max comes to a head in "Max Out," written by James Krieg and directed by Butch Lukic. This was a pretty big story, introducing Gwen's brother by the (inevitable) name of Ken, revealing the nature of the DNAlien/HighBreed plot (at least to an extent), exposing some new abilities of the upgraded Omnitrix (now with verbal interface!), and leading to a reunion with Max that doesn't turn out the way our heroes hoped.
Krieg's script was okay, but the dialogue didn't have the flair that Dwayne McDuffie's teleplays have. Also, for the first time in this series, we get an episode without a single new Omnitrix alien being introduced -- and without the stock transformation sequence being used even once (which is too bad, because I really like the music cue that accompanies it). I guess the "new Omnitrix power" slot this week was taken up by the talking/DNA-scanning/gene-repairing stuff. Still, they're making surprisingly little use of Ben's abilities in some of these episodes. I mean, when they were trying to get into the Hatchery, why didn't Ben just change into Big Chill and phase through the wall? Not only are they underutilizing the Omnitrix aliens, they aren't using them when it makes sense to use them.
Max sacrificing himself to stop the bad guys was telegraphed, and not too hard to figure out; the show doesn't work if Ben's grandpa is still around to guide him. It's the classic hero's journey, the young apprentice losing his master and having to rise to the occasion. I'm just surprised they resolved the search for Max so early in the season. Although it's pretty much a given that Max isn't dead, just trapped in the Null Void, so this won't be the last we see of him. No doubt that was the meaning of Max's final wink to Ben.
Krieg's script was okay, but the dialogue didn't have the flair that Dwayne McDuffie's teleplays have. Also, for the first time in this series, we get an episode without a single new Omnitrix alien being introduced -- and without the stock transformation sequence being used even once (which is too bad, because I really like the music cue that accompanies it). I guess the "new Omnitrix power" slot this week was taken up by the talking/DNA-scanning/gene-repairing stuff. Still, they're making surprisingly little use of Ben's abilities in some of these episodes. I mean, when they were trying to get into the Hatchery, why didn't Ben just change into Big Chill and phase through the wall? Not only are they underutilizing the Omnitrix aliens, they aren't using them when it makes sense to use them.
Max sacrificing himself to stop the bad guys was telegraphed, and not too hard to figure out; the show doesn't work if Ben's grandpa is still around to guide him. It's the classic hero's journey, the young apprentice losing his master and having to rise to the occasion. I'm just surprised they resolved the search for Max so early in the season. Although it's pretty much a given that Max isn't dead, just trapped in the Null Void, so this won't be the last we see of him. No doubt that was the meaning of Max's final wink to Ben.
I managed to check out the hour-long episode on Cartoon Network tonight, where Ben, Gwen, and Kevin battle against this horde of aliens to destroy their alien super-powerful weapons. I enjoyed it, but not sure if it`s something I`ll continue watching. Will give it a few more eps.
^^That sounds like the pilot. I wasn't aware they'd rerun it last night.
(This week's Saturday morning episode was also a rerun, specifically of episode 3, the first post-pilot story. Next week's is new, though.)
(This week's Saturday morning episode was also a rerun, specifically of episode 3, the first post-pilot story. Next week's is new, though.)
I watched it last night. At first, I was ashamed that I was 1: at home on a Saturday night and 2: watching a cartoon, but...this was a pretty damn good cartoon. I'll definitely catch it whenever I can. Intelligent writing. Cool aliens for Ben to turn into. Humor. It had it all. Well done.
^^ It comes on in the morning as well so you only need to be half as ashamed.
^^ It comes on in the morning as well so you only need to be half as ashamed.
LOL. Thanks, I'll check it out and feel less ashamed.
"Pier Pressure" was written by Len Uhley and directed by Dan Riba. A pretty mediocre episode, kind of a standard teen-hero-cartoon sort of plot where the hero fears his date thinking him weird if she discovers his powers, but she does and thinks it's cool, and he learns a lesson about being himself or something. The "danger" turns out to be a misunderstanding, with the monster taking over the vehicles being a probe sent out by a Galvanic Mechomorph (like Upgrade from the original series) that needed help fixing his crashed ship. The action didn't make a lot of sense; why didn't the "Ship" slug-dog thingy just show itself to Ben? And why didn't Ben immediately recognize the altered appearance of the attacking vehicles and objects as proof of Mechomorph, err, possession? For that matter, nobody in the episode seemed to notice that the vehicles had changed appearance. I kind of got the impression that Len Uhley wrote this script without a lot of familiarity with the details of Upgrade in the original show -- but why didn't anyone catch this problem in the production phase?
All in all, the best part of this episode was Kevin's line, "Knob's broke!" Greg Cipes gives great line readings sometimes. Overall, though, this was a disappointment, and the show overall hasn't turned out as impressive as the pilot suggested. Hopefully next week will be an improvement; the promo suggests some big discoveries may be in store.
All in all, the best part of this episode was Kevin's line, "Knob's broke!" Greg Cipes gives great line readings sometimes. Overall, though, this was a disappointment, and the show overall hasn't turned out as impressive as the pilot suggested. Hopefully next week will be an improvement; the promo suggests some big discoveries may be in store.
I just noticed this thread, and I've never even seen Ben 10... but I met Tara Strong at BotCon this year (got her to autograph "<3 Hello Kitty" for my little sister), and at one of the panels she complained that the new show replaced her. She said she was perfectly capable of playing older, and judging by her demonstration, that's certainly true!
^^I dunno... I would never doubt Tara Strong's versatility, her being a goddess of voice work and all, and she's great at playing a pre-adolescent boy (the actor who played Ben in the live-action movie actually sounded a lot like her Ben). But given that Ben is 15 in this show, I think it's more authentic to have a male actor playing the part. However, I'm a bit surprised they didn't get Tara to play older Gwen, as she did in the "Ben 10,000" episodes. I think they just wanted to give this show its own identity. And Ashley Johnson is great as teenage Gwen.