Roddenberry was really good at selling the idea of himself, probably better than any other pop culture figurehead in history.
Spoilers Batwoman - Season 1
- Thread starter dahj
- Start date
I'm trying and struggling to figure out what Catherine's relationship to the Kane family was when she faked Beth's DNA results because according to math, she and Jacob didn't get married until 2008, 5 years after Beth disappeared.
Wow, this was an intense and well-written episode, with a wrenching backstory and some very smart dialogue writing. Although it shows that Kate is still pretty inexperienced at this heroing thing, or maybe she wouldn't have let Alice trap her so easily. Never let your captive pick the diner!
Is "Mouse" someone from the comics? I think the name on the house sign said Cartwright, but I can't place the name. It looks like they're setting him up to be a master of disguise, with skin masks and voice impersonations. Maybe drawing on the Basil Karlo version of Clayface?
And they've finally referenced Elseworlds, with Luke mentioning the Arkham breakout two weeks ago. With a bit of a metatextual nod to iffy inter-show continuity with Mary saying she'd heard nothing about it.
It looks like they are still filming in Chicago, even doing major dialogue scenes there. I sort of figured that they'd shoot mainly in Vancouver and just drop in various second-unit stuff they shot in Chicago during the first couple of episodes. But it seems they're really there.
Oh, I'd say George Lucas is in the running. He even put his name on the Star Wars novelization that Alan Dean Foster ghostwrote. At least Roddenberry put in the work and wrote his own movie novelization, however clumsily.
Also Bob Kane, far more than either of those. He came up with the barest seed of the idea that Bill Finger developed into Batman, yet took exclusive credit for it and even negotiated a contract that specifically banned Finger from ever getting credit or money for his creation, so that Finger died in poverty and obscurity as a result. Kane built his entire reputation on stealing credit for other people's work, in an especially predatory way.
I'd say that a lot of famous people's reputations were built in a similar way, more on selling a perception of themselves than on actually earning it. Just look at Donald Trump for an extreme example. Roddenberry was nowhere near that level. He was a self-promoter, yes, but he actually did some stuff that deserved recognition, unlike many.
Is "Mouse" someone from the comics? I think the name on the house sign said Cartwright, but I can't place the name. It looks like they're setting him up to be a master of disguise, with skin masks and voice impersonations. Maybe drawing on the Basil Karlo version of Clayface?
And they've finally referenced Elseworlds, with Luke mentioning the Arkham breakout two weeks ago. With a bit of a metatextual nod to iffy inter-show continuity with Mary saying she'd heard nothing about it.
It looks like they are still filming in Chicago, even doing major dialogue scenes there. I sort of figured that they'd shoot mainly in Vancouver and just drop in various second-unit stuff they shot in Chicago during the first couple of episodes. But it seems they're really there.
Oh, I'd say George Lucas is in the running. He even put his name on the Star Wars novelization that Alan Dean Foster ghostwrote. At least Roddenberry put in the work and wrote his own movie novelization, however clumsily.
Also Bob Kane, far more than either of those. He came up with the barest seed of the idea that Bill Finger developed into Batman, yet took exclusive credit for it and even negotiated a contract that specifically banned Finger from ever getting credit or money for his creation, so that Finger died in poverty and obscurity as a result. Kane built his entire reputation on stealing credit for other people's work, in an especially predatory way.
I'd say that a lot of famous people's reputations were built in a similar way, more on selling a perception of themselves than on actually earning it. Just look at Donald Trump for an extreme example. Roddenberry was nowhere near that level. He was a self-promoter, yes, but he actually did some stuff that deserved recognition, unlike many.
Maybe it was not just navels in general, but Mariette Hartley's navel in particular. Roddenberry gave her two bellybuttons in GENESIS II to make up for the one we didn't see in "All Our Yesterdays." 
Getting back OT, I'm not immediately linking "Mouse" to any established Bat-villain.
Getting back OT, I'm not immediately linking "Mouse" to any established Bat-villain.
I keep thinking of the Dormouse who is part of the Mad Tea Party in Alice in Wonderland.
I'm pretty sure Mouse is a completely original character who evokes existing comics characters in the same vein as characters like Felicity Smoak, John Diggle, Astra In-Ze, Thea Queen, Sara Lance, and Mary Hamilton.
It's actually the Mouse from the Pool of Tears in Chapter II-III, which they paraphrased. The episode title, "Mine is a Long and Sad Tale," is one of the Mouse's lines. The Dormouse is a separate character from Ch. VII. (And a separate species of rodent, despite the name -- dormice are more closely related to squirrels and chipmunks than to mice.)
Thank you. I was suspecting there was a separate Wonderland character. Or they would have called him “Dormouse”. You google Wonderland and Mouse and not surprising the first links are full of Disneyland, Mickey Mouse, and the Mad Tea Party ride! Looking further down there is a Wikipedia link to correct Mouse buried under the Disney links.
It helps to Google the correct title of the book, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (which for some reason the show got wrong on the mockup cover).
Might be a copyright thing - IE they don't want to have to pay for the rights to use the actual 100% correct title on a real copy of the book.)
The original Alice's Adventures in Wonderland book is in the public domain, so I'm betting that this was simply a 'shorthand oversight' that nobody caught.
It's public domain, which is why the full text is available at the link I provided. And why so many of its characters and elements have been referenced by Batman and Batwoman stories, Star Trek, and countless other things. Note that the book cover in the episode did feature an authentic John Tenniel illustration from the original book under the shortened title.
No, it's probably just that the general public assumes it's called Alice in Wonderland and they were simplifying it to fit viewer expectations.
White eyes! If she had those on earlier in the season maybe Alice wouldn't have recognized her. 
Great episode, appropriately creepy considering Halloween time, Alice continues to be one of the best villains in the Arrowverse and Mary is totally best sister despite no track record of murder or flaying.
Friend.
Should have been Bolton by the looks of things.
Great episode, appropriately creepy considering Halloween time, Alice continues to be one of the best villains in the Arrowverse and Mary is totally best sister despite no track record of murder or flaying.
Friend.
Should have been Bolton by the looks of things.
I've been wondering about the location shooting as well. ER which was set in Chicago but filmed in LA did outdoor shooting for a couple days a month in Chicago to cover all the outside scenes they needed for how many batch of episodes they were currently working on. I wonder if that's what they're doing here.
I don't get the reference.
It's a noble house in Westeros(A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones) whose sigil is a flayed man (because that's what they did to their enemies).
Alice's backstory wasn't quite as horrifying as I was expecting. The way Skarsten talked about it in the interview I linked to the other day, I was expecting something a lot worse. I've been watching Evil and Prodigal Son this season, so I was expecting something more like what you'd see on those shows. It was nice to get her backstory though, the scene with Jacob and Kate at the Cartright house was pretty heartbreaking, especially when all that separated Beth and Kate was the door. I'm curious what exactly Mouse's role will be in whatever Alice has planned. So was he the waiter at Dusty's? I saw he was wearing the Dusty's shirt, but I couldn't tell for sure if it was him.
Drunk Mary hanging around with Luke was pretty fun.
Should be interesting to see what happens with Jacob now that he seems to have accepted that Alice is Beth.
Drunk Mary hanging around with Luke was pretty fun.
Should be interesting to see what happens with Jacob now that he seems to have accepted that Alice is Beth.
