Issue? Or is this one of those Marvel Handbook things?
Batman Vs. Cpt America and JLA vs. The Avengers
- Thread starter Vanyel
- Start date
Captain America 65th Anniversary Special from 2006.
Stopped buying comics befor then.
Can't say I like the idea. I seem to recall Cap getting tired in the past. I suppose it will fade like his super-strength from the 70s. Assuming Mr Rogers returns. Mr Barnes is probably exhausted at the end of the day.
In part. It's an adamantium/vibranium alloy.
Busiek's JLA/Avengers cross over was reprinted in soft cover a week or so ago (the out of print hard cover TPB was selling in the silly money range of $60.00, I believe, prior to the reprint). I'm in the middle of it, and it seems to confirm my personal prejudice: JLA crushes the relatively underpowered Avengers. Chaos magic or not.
this is a no brainer. Captain America has been enhanced with the strength and agility of many men, then trained on the battlefields of WWII and beyond...and carries a shield which is made admantium and vibranium. Bats has a cowl and cool cars.
The JLA has more sheer power hero to hero.
The JLA has more sheer power hero to hero.
Batman could beat the Avengers all by himself so he could certainly beat Cap.
The fact that Busiek, whose rather intense dislike of Thor is well known in certain circles, consistently characterizes him as a bruiser with a bludgeon, one who leads with his chin and uses a bit of lightning for effect, does not change the fact that a properly-portrayed Thor waxes Superman. He's faced and defeated foes against which the Man of Steel would qualify as a windshield bug.
No pun intended, but ... they're just not in the same league.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
And let us not forget the "M" word...that is "Magic" (or possibly in this case "Myjolnyr"). Even the god-like Gold/Silver Age Supes is vulnerable to magic. Thor, Herc, Dr. Druid, Scarlet Witch (if she has her "Chaos Magick"), Moon Knight (the Fist of Konshu version), all contenders for catching Supes with his cape off, as it were.
GL might pose a problem for a bit until Tony could get a good lock on the ring's energy signiture and design a counterfrequency for it. All he needs is his suit sensors (and possibly a commlink to HOMER or Mr Fantastic for some quick calculation assistance). Barring Tony, Mar-vel with his quantum bands would be an even match for GL
JLA has some hitters, no doubt about it, but so do the Avengers. Basically the two teams are dimensional counterparts of each other anyways. Name me a Leaguer, and with a little work I can probably come up with an Avenger counterpart, or vice versa...
That assumes Superman takes on Thor or any of the magical beings in the Avengers. With Wonder Woman, Zatanna, The Phantom Stranger and Dr. Fate the JLA has the magical and god powered people to fight the Avengers. While magic can hurt Superman, his powers are able to deal with the spell caster.
Would I be correct in assuming that by "Tony" you mean Iron Man? If so I wouldn't put GL against him. Firestorm would be a better match. One good hit by Firestorm and Iron Man becomes Papier-mâché Man.
That is true; however, I think the heavy hitters of the JLA can handle and beat the heavy hitters of the Avengers.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
Superman, as the "big gun" of the JL will naturally attract the attention of the "big guns" of the Avengers...that inlcudes Thor and Herc, both mystic based. Hulk (if he's in the fight), while NOT mystical, would be a match for Supes in raw strength, for that matter.
This is discounting the other mystics, who don't have to have Supe's raw strength or anything else to hurt him badly. Even a weak mystic could put some serious hurt on Supe's because he's just that weak against magic.
There's this little thing called "teamwork". Iron Man fights smart, and would do what he could to aid his teammates, regardless of who he was personally fighting. You're also discounting "team ups, 'tag teaming", "triple/quadruple teaming" and "dog piling".
Further, you assume that the armor couldn't handle one of Firestorm's blasts.
Outside of the "Magnificent Seven", most of the Leaguers really aren't that much more powerful than an average Avenger. And you still haven't refuted that I can counter every one of the M7 with at least one Avenger.
Teamwork goes both ways. Superman does not have to go it alone against any mystic, he has plenty magical and/or people given powers by gods or god like beings to back him up.
I'm not sure, but has Iron Man's suit been shown to be resistant to molecular change? A type similar to what Firestorm can do, like maybe the Molecule Man?
And I didn't refute you because I agreed with you.
The M7 of the JLA, along with teamwork from the other members, can out power or even just out last the Avengers in a fight.
Happy Black Friday!
I'm not sure, but has Iron Man's suit been shown to be resistant to molecular change? A type similar to what Firestorm can do, like maybe the Molecule Man?
And I didn't refute you because I agreed with you.
The M7 of the JLA, along with teamwork from the other members, can out power or even just out last the Avengers in a fight.
Happy Black Friday!
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
And your proof of this is? Esp given that I've shown already how your "big guns" can be handled by multiple Avengers?
I am just of this attitude (and this isn't the first time I've encountered it) that the Justice League are these all-powerful gods that no hero or villain in any universe can EVER hope to withstand.
They're powerful, no doubt about it...but they are NOT invincible. No matter how many times you say it, Ive shown you a refutation of it, showing how a specific Avenger or Avengers can handle them.
Simply reiterating "It's tEh SUPERman! (or wGrEEn LanTERN, or hoever) is not proving anything.
Yes, clearly.
The way Superman's vulnerability to magic works is that he's as vulnerable to it as everyone else, not more vulnerable. Magic would affect his as much as it would any other character who had a similar level of durability. He has a "weakness" to it the same way the Hulk does.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
Thor's problem is that he's too proud to use his hammer's "magical nukes" to defeat opponents. Otherwise, he would have killed the Hulk many times over by now. Thor prefers to defeat foes by using blunt force. If those are the terms, then he cannot beat Superman, who is stronger and faster.
Yes, clearly.
This proves that he's written the character, not that he particularly likes him.
And unless he's changed his stance on Thor since the conversations I and other Thor fans had with him some years ago, he doesn't like Thor, and doesn't think he's particularly powerful.
Bad Bishop said:
That's certainly a valid take, though Thor's strength and speed (he's performed inconceivable feats of strength and employed hyper speed once or twice before) as relates to Superman's are an open question. One might counter that Thor is too honorable to ... ahem ... drop the hammer on certain of his enemies, and has some sort of personal code that only allows for pulling out more of the stops once he knows a foe can take it.
To his credit, Busiek did add a sop for Thor fans, in that the Thunder God mentions to Aquaman that a second bout with Superman would hold some surprises for the Man of Steel. In other words, Superman pulled the upset, but he'd never manage it a second time.
If, indeed, KB was taking all that into account, perhaps his treatment of Thor was a little fairer than I'd first believed.
Granted, it'd be very hard to properly balance Thor in a book like Avengers. He's so powerful there'd not be much for others to do were he exploiting his capabilities to their fullest.
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I imagine most writers, barring the struggling, starving kind, don't write mini-series about characters they dislike.
Have you read the series? It's a total love letter and tribute to the Lee-Kirby Thor, something that's evident on every single page.
Quotes? Because the conversations I've seen him have online have mentioned how he'd read every (literally every) single issue of Thor ever, and how he was a fan of Norse mythology even before he was a fan of comics, going as far as to put fake lightning bolts on a hammer while playing in the backyard.
I'll have to pick it up.
Sorry. Can't help you there. This was a conversation from almost a decade ago, and I lost most of my email from that period in 2007.
Either he's changed his stance (which seems unlikely given what you mention he's said about Thor), or I drew an unwarranted and incorrect conclusion from things said therein.
I do recall specifically that he doesn't (or, then, didn't) think Thor's bulletproof, though, and was vehement about that.