• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - Grading & Discussion

Grade the movie...

  • Total voters
    224
Yeah as I've said before, I have no problem with the basic tone and approach they're taking with DC; I just think they need to get people who are better storytellers and can make movies that are truly thrilling and exciting to watch.

Snyder did a really good job with the simpler and more straightforward story of MOS, but he's clearly in over his head when it comes to juggling more complex plots with multiple storylines and superheroes. And I frankly shudder to think of what a chaotic and convoluted mess he might make of Justice League...
 
The more I think about movie based on one viewing - which for all its many faults I overall enjoyed - the more I appreciate how much spirit Eisenberg brought to role : whether he was right in first place (debateable) , or given good direction or not (ditto) .

 
davejames said:
Snyder did a really good job with the simpler and more straightforward story of MOS, but he's clearly in over his head when it comes to juggling more complex plots with multiple storylines and superheroes. And I frankly shudder to think of what a chaotic and convoluted mess he might make of Justice League...
Click to expand...

Personally, I had no trouble following what was happening and I did not find it convoluted but that does seem to be a common complaint.

I do think the inclusion of a short scene similar to the prequel comic featuring senator Finch would have helped a lot in that regard. Basically that comic explains how since MoS Superman's heroic activities have mostly focused on natural disasters, accidents and crime, while he's stayed out of wars which has the government worried on what if he does decide to intervene in conflicts and takes sides.

One can infer all that from what happens in the movie, but I think that a short exposition scene up front would have gone a long way to alleviate all the "what's the point of the Africa scene" and "Lex's plan makes no sense", which seem to be the most common complaints.

Here's the link to the comic: http://imgur.com/a/FAMjn
 
dodge said:
Personally, I had no trouble following what was happening and I did not find it convoluted but that does seem to be a common complaint.

I do think the inclusion of a short scene similar to the prequel comic featuring senator Finch would have helped a lot in that regard. Basically that comic explains how since MoS Superman's heroic activities have mostly focused on natural disasters, accidents and crime, while he's stayed out of wars which has the government worried on what if he does decide to intervene in conflicts and takes sides.

One can infer all that from what happens in the movie, but I think that a short exposition scene up front would have gone a long way to alleviate all the "what's the point of the Africa scene" and "Lex's plan makes no sense", which seem to be the most common complaints.

Here's the link to the comic: http://imgur.com/a/FAMjn
Click to expand...

Well yeah it was certainly easy to understand the basic gist of the story (Lex manipulating Batman into killing Superman with phony attacks in Africa and the destruction of Congress, etc), but the way the movie connected all those dots was just incredibly clumsy and awkward in my opinion.

And it doesn't help when you have confusing plot points like Bruce stealing kryptonite from Lex... that was already going to be used against Superman anyway. Or Lex engineering this entire elaborate plan to pit Batman against Superman... only to seemingly ignore that very early on and create his own weapon to destroy Superman in Doomsday.
 
davejames said:
And it doesn't help when you have confusing plot points like Bruce stealing kryptonite from Lex... that was already going to be used against Superman anyway.
Click to expand...

Batman had no way of knowing when or how Lex planned to use the kryptonite.
He figured he's the guy to take on this responsibility because he's more capable.

davejames said:
Or Lex engineering this entire elaborate plan to pit Batman against Superman... only to seemingly ignore that very early on and create his own weapon to destroy Superman in Doomsday.
Click to expand...

I think it's perfectly within Lex's character to have contingencies.
He went ahead with creating Doomsday after Batman knicked the kryptonite, so now Lex had no idea when or how Batman will use it.
 
I did not like the character of Lex in BvS.

However, I believe he was intentionally unlikable, so I am perfectly fine with that.

Kor
 
dodge said:
Batman had no way of knowing when or how Lex planned to use the kryptonite.
He figured he's the guy to take on this responsibility because he's more capable.

I think it's perfectly within Lex's character to have contingencies.
He went ahead with creating Doomsday after Batman knicked the kryptonite, so now Lex had no idea when or how Batman will use it.
Click to expand...

Yeah but it still felt to me like the plot was stumbling over itself at times with stuff like that, and not really clear enough on how all these different plot points fit together or why certain people were being manipulated the way they were, etc.
 
Wyse said:
My friend and I were discussing this movie (she just went and saw it) and her big problem with the end was, if Batman is okay with actively trying to kill Superman because of the potential threat he possesses, why then is Lex still alive? Why did they bother to grab Lex out of harm's way when Doomsday took a swing at him? How is Lex not a bigger threat currently and more deserving of being put down, than Superman who might be in the future?
Click to expand...
Batman's logic is that Superman could actually annihilate the Earth if he chose, and given that he isn't human we can't count on him not doing it. Whereas Lex is human, so however bad he may be, he won't attempt to wipe out humanity.

Phily B said:
To be honest, a lot of superheroes are just more suited to television and at the moment, with the money and budget in television matching a lot of Hollywood movies, it's not unexpected.
Click to expand...
I suspect for many viewers the essential sillyness of superheroes makes committing to a whole series a big ask, compared to enjoying the occasional blockbuster.
 
eyeresist said:
Batman's logic is that Superman could actually annihilate the Earth if he chose, and given that he isn't human we can't count on him not doing it. Whereas Lex is human, so however bad he may be, he won't attempt to wipe out humanity.
Click to expand...
Even though he had already created a monster as fully capable of destroying humanity as Superman was...and without any sign of trying to do good, as Superman did.
 
davejames said:
Yeah but it still felt to me like the plot was stumbling over itself at times with stuff like that, and not really clear enough on how all these different plot points fit together or why certain people were being manipulated the way they were, etc.
Click to expand...

Based on that deleted scene with Steppenwolf, I am thinking that there is certainly more to his plan than just taking out Superman. I expect that the creation of Doomsday had something to do with drawing Darkseid's intention--Lex probably has a mother box someplace--

Also, I think Lex's plan was to really have Superman kill Batman after which Doomsday would take out Superman and he kills of two heroes for the price of one.
 
lurok said:
The more I think about movie based on one viewing - which for all its many faults I overall enjoyed - the more I appreciate how much spirit Eisenberg brought to role : whether he was right in first place (debateable) , or given good direction or not (ditto) .

Click to expand...
The saving grace of the film was the fact that pretty much everybody seemed to give their all. I may not have enjoyed every interpretation of the character on screen, but I certainly admired the cast's commitment to the product and their roles. Eisenberg in particular played a horribly written and drawn character with such gusto and enthusiasm I was, frankly, flabbergasted, A real pro.

Hugo - no way he would have made it through a reading of "The Redcapes are coming...".
 
Saw it again last night with a friend who wasn't able to make it the first time I saw it. My views haven't changed - it's flawed but I still enjoyed it immensely. My friend also enjoyed it a lot more than he expected to.
 
M.A.C.O. said:
Apparently, it's too late to remove Snyder from JL (which is supposed to begin filming soon), but there will be new creative minds and producers attached to JL.

http://www.newsarama.com/28711-report-wb-s-justice-league-may-see-behind-the-scenes-changes.html
Click to expand...
I think if it's drummed into Snyder that he needs a brighter tone and clearer plot, JL could be pretty good. And I imagine that's exactly what the studio is telling him. (Unless they are scared of hurting his feelings.)

Currently watching Screen Junkies Movie Fight: Batman v Superman: Fun or Failure?
The points being raised seem pretty old at this point, and I notice the guys arguing for "failure" can still talk with great enthusiasm about certain aspects of the movie.
 
eyeresist said:
I think if it's drummed into Snyder that he needs a brighter tone and clearer plot, JL could be pretty good. And I imagine that's exactly what the studio is telling him. (Unless they are scared of hurting his feelings.)

Currently watching Screen Junkies Movie Fight: Batman v Superman: Fun or Failure?
The points being raised seem pretty old at this point, and I notice the guys arguing for "failure" can still talk with great enthusiasm about certain aspects of the movie.
Click to expand...
I think the thing with BvS is that at the end of the day it was on the "meh" side of ok. It wasn't good, or great like a film starring Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman should've have been. Snyder had all the tools and characters to make this film something special, and it just isn't.
 
M.A.C.O. said:
Apparently, it's too late to remove Snyder from JL (which is supposed to begin filming soon), but there will be new creative minds and producers attached to JL.

http://www.newsarama.com/28711-report-wb-s-justice-league-may-see-behind-the-scenes-changes.html
Click to expand...

And then you click on the link to the Hollywood Reporter Article it mentions

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/warner-bros-mulls-releasing-films-881265

And it looks like the adding new people thing is an unsubstantiated rumor. In fact I'm not seeing anything thats says their doing much to chnage how the DCEU is running other than green lighting two new movies, which is hardly a panicking response.
 
I love all of these articles based on nothing more than rumor and speculation. The SS reshoots turn out to have had nothing to do with reception to BvS, for example, and I imagine that nobody actually running a company is going to be making snap decisions on the future of their film franchise so quickly.

Have there been ANY articles that actually have real comments by WB execs regarding their reaction to the movie? I can't believe that a March release could be expected to make anything near the big summer Jurassic/Transformer blockbusters. I imagine that the March release was designed to keep the movie away from competition (wasn't it originally scheduled for the same weekend as Captain America?) so expectations must have been met for how much the film was supposed to make.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top