Spoilers Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - Grading & Discussion

[Aldo]

I feel weird talking as if I'm trashing BvS because I actually liked it and gave it a positive review earlier in this thread. I guess I just feel like it didn't quite live up to its potential.

I didn't take it that way at all. You're just a fan who wants to see them succeed. I do too, it's just I do feel BvS succeed in what it set out to do (I mean, I do have some reservations, but it's a lot better of a movie than I ever expected it to be).

 

[M.A.C.O.]

We have these FB posts from Cavil and Gadot.

Afleck had this to say on Jimmy Fallon.
"Don't scare people into thinking this is a critical film," he added. "We're not going for the film critic circle. This is an audience movie. People actually like this movie."

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[Noname Given]

So I just checked RT and BvS is down to 28%. Going forward, what do you think WB should do?

Should they tailor make their films to not offend critics (most of whom I assume are internet journalist or bloggers nowadays) or should they continue making films for audiences (who mostly have responded positively to MOS and BVS) but tighten up some of the weak spots of their films?

Tricky situation to be sure.

How about - they just execute a GOOD story - treat the characters well (IE keep them IN character to the comic stories of years past/present - and edit the film well?

 

[eyeresist]

Afleck had this to say on Jimmy Fallon.
"Don't scare people into thinking this is a critical film," he added. "We're not going for the film critic circle. This is an audience movie. People actually like this movie."

Yes, I think that given the reaction the publicity line will be (a) This is a movie for the fans, not the critics, and (b) The extended version will be better.

Anyway, I haven't seen BvS yet, but already I'm pretty sure Hans Zimmer is to blame.

[shakes fist] Zimmerrrrrrrrr!!!!!

 

[Turtletrekker]

If what Snyder said about Jimmy Olsen is true, then you couldn't pay me to watch the extended version. In fact, when that scene popped up in the theater, I just read the ingredients on my candy bar wrapper and ignored the movie until that scene was over.

 

[Zaku]

Pleasing the critics and pleasing the audience are not two mutually excluding concepts. See the first Avengers or Nolan's The Dark Knight.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Pleasing the critics and pleasing the audience are not two mutually excluding concepts. See the first Avengers or Nolan's The Dark Knight.

Yeah, but neither film was made with explicit purpose of pleasing the critics and getting good reviews/scores. Nolan and Whedon set out to make the best movies they could, telling the stories the best way they could and it paid off big time for them. Snyder did the same and critics hated nearly everything about it. BvS is at 28% with 199 medium and negative reviews from critics. If you took the list of complaints critics made about BvS and tried to make a film with those notes in mind, do you think things would've turned out better for BvS?

List of criticisms and praises.

Spoiler

- too much action

- not enough action

- great cameos

- a few good cameos

- the beginning is amazing

- the beginning is choppy

- nobody has motivation, or character moments

- Batfleck, Holly Holms, Alfred are great

- Henry doesn't do much

- Henry has more to do, and is more vulnerable, than in MoS

- The last 30 min are amazing

- The last 30 min are boring

- I was bored the whole time

- I was at the edge of my seat, even though the movie was okay

- Too dark, no humor

- Alfred and Lex are funny, and the dark tone helps

- This is not a child's movie

- Silly things happen that break tension

- Perhaps the comic book genre needs a break

- Doomsday fight is amazing

- Meh Doomsday

- Amazing Bats vs Supes fight

- Bats vs Supes skirmish?

- Tailor made for comic book fans, and nerds

- Makes comic fans, and nerds, wish it was never made

- Too many Oscar winning actors

- It's not similar to the Marvel movies

etc

 

[Mach5]

BvS took $15 million on Monday. A great number. Domestic total could go as high as 400 million, but it's too early to tell.

 

[FPAlpha]

See, that's the thing that motivated me to pose this question. BvS has seemingly been raked across the coals by critics for not meeting their skewed expectations. Should WB now tailor make their films to avoid such a thrashing? Which would be ceding control to a section of the audience and giving them what they think they want. Artistic freedom and creative liberty be damned.

Like I said, a tricky situation.

Absolutely not.. speaking from a purely commercial viewpoint all studios should ignore critics and do their own thing. The audience is always who decides if they want to see a movie and in the case of BvS they apparently decided to see it despite lukewarm reviews (at best). It's already a commercial success and at the end of the day that's all that matters.

Even getting Oscars doesn't mean much for the movie but it paves the way for more marketable elements, e.g. actors with Oscars automatically can demand a bigger salary (as well as directors, writers, cinematographers etc) but a studio couldn't care less if their movie will also be liked if it still makes them a ton of money (see Transformers, especially the last one).

So if a studio sets out to get a well liked and oscar worthy movie good for them but it's a huge gamble because it's not guaranteed at all. My most recent experience is Star Wars: The Force Awakens. All the right ingredients, a huge franchise with a built in audience yet the story in general and some other elements disappointed me (basically a remake of A new Hope).

With BvS it's similar.. they did their own thing, developed their own style and did it how they wanted. I have my problems with the movie but that's me, others like it much but it doesn't matter what i think because i paid money to see it. Maybe the studio would be happier if i lauded the movie and created word of mouth buzz but that's not going to happen so BvS may not be the huge smash hit, generating 1-2 billion in revenue by becoming THE comic book movie that'll be talked about for a decade but it will still be a solid success and not demolish WB's plan to have their own shared universe movies (but they probably will not reach Marvel's level of financial success).

 

[Zaku]

Yeah, but neither film was made with explicit purpose of pleasing the critics and getting good reviews/scores. Nolan and Whedon set out to make the best movies they could, telling the stories the best way they could and it paid off big time for them.

I believe that the people that make movies loved by critics are trying to do the best possibile movies they could, too.

I don't think Stanley Kubrick, while he was doing his movies, he coldly thought: "If I insert this scene, the critics will love IT!"

 

[Tosk]

The part I didn't get was how he used Zod's fingerprints to get in but then later the ship is calling him "Alexander Luthor". Shouldn't it be calling him Zod?

Yeah, weirdly the system asked for his name and then started treating him like a new master instead of trying to kill him like it did in the first film. Tried to take out Lois and Clark back then.

 

[eyeresist]

Screen Junkies does a spoilerific hour-long review:

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Mostly what you'd expect to hear, except they talk about seeing seeing studio interference in this theatrical version, and mention that the original 3 hour version tested very positively (in contrast to current reactions).


Good analysis of the "Communion" deleted scene:

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Someone in the comments says Lex is the Jar Jar of this movie.

 

[Yanks]

A few questions to those who may have answers...

Since when does Clark ever refer to his mother as Martha anyway? Especially to a someone who has never heard of her before?

I didn't have a problem with this. We do have to assume that Superman knew that Bruce's mothers name was Martha here but that's not out of the realm of believability.

Unless I'm forgetting it, why does the Kryptonian ship now have fingerprint recognition when it didn't before? How come it tried to kill Clark and Lois but invited Lex to be it's new boss?

Who says it didn't before? It just needed Zod's fingerprints.

Why did Lex need to add his blood to the Doomsday mix? Wouldn't being part human make him weaker than Superman? How did Lex plan to control Doomsday? His plan is to kill Superman with a being that is much more dangerous and out of control?

I have more, but that'll do for now.

I have no idea about the blood thing nor how Lex Jr figured out blood was needed. I don't know that Lexx Jr controlled Doomsday, he appears out of the goo and then Superman was fighting him.

 

[Yanks]

Justice League Part I will have a lighter tone.

Many have noted the lack of humor in this and previous DC movies.

There is some humor injected in there, but I don't see the "lack" as a problem at all and see it very understandable from the DC view. They are trying to create their own universe here, not copy Marvel's.

 

[Mr Light]

<<Yeah, weirdly the system asked for his name and then started treating him like a new master instead of trying to kill him like it did in the first film. Tried to take out Lois and Clark back then.>>
I assume once Superman gained control of the ship in MOS, he instructed it to stop trying to kill people and be more cooperative with human scientists.

 

[dahj]

Yeah, weirdly the system asked for his name and then started treating him like a new master instead of trying to kill him like it did in the first film. Tried to take out Lois and Clark back then.

Lex is a techie, he probably just used Zod's authorization to grant himself root access.

 

[Mudd]

We have these FB posts from Cavil and Gadot.

Afleck had this to say on Jimmy Fallon.
"Don't scare people into thinking this is a critical film," he added. "We're not going for the film critic circle. This is an audience movie. People actually like this movie."

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Awesome.

 

[Set Harth]

We do have to assume that Superman knew that Bruce's mothers name was Martha

Do we? I don't think I assumed that.

 

[Captain_Amasov]

Yeah, weirdly the system asked for his name and then started treating him like a new master instead of trying to kill him like it did in the first film. Tried to take out Lois and Clark back then.

That was before General Zod used his key to override the scout ship's systems, which also erased Jor-El's program too, so maybe there was something there that altered its security systems.

 

[Tosk]

Who says it didn't before? It just needed Zod's fingerprints.

The first movie says.

Lex is a techie, he probably just used Zod's authorization to grant himself root access.

How would he give himself access though? Zod is dead, and Kelor just says hello how can I help you when Lex walks in. Zod's fingertips? A voice command?