It's because Bruce Timm likes that art style.
Batman: Caped Crusader (Prime Video)
- Thread starter Wingcommanderdarkwolf01
- Start date
What a completely bizarre thing to ask. Bruce Timm used that style because it's his own style of art, the same one he uses on every show he makes and every comic book or painting he creates. Why would you expect Timm not to do the show in his own style? That's like complaining that a Jack Kirby comic book is drawn in Jack Kirby's style, or that a Degas painting is done in Degas's style, or that a Frank Sinatra song sounds like it was sung by Frank Sinatra.
John Fogarty was once sued for sounding too much like John Fogarty.
I signed up for Prime, and I've seen episodes 2 & 3 now. The Clayface episode was good, a nice mystery story and a pretty good evocation of the period setting. My opinion of the Catwoman episode is more mixed. This version of Selina is kind of underwhelming, just a spoiled, thrill-seeking heiress -- but that was kind of the point, to illustrate how Batman is obsessed with hunting criminals even when they're not dangerous. Although I'm not a fan of interpretations of Batman that lean too heavily into the obsession angle.
I still find the animation mediocre, and I'm not a fan of the way the characters' eyes are designed; they often seem to be staring rather lifelessly. Also, the character designs for Montoya and Dr. Quinzel are too similar-looking.
The music is also disappointingly generic. Watching the scene of Batman chasing Catwoman across the rooftops, I couldn't help comparing it unfavorably to the opening sequence of B:TAS: "The Cat and the Claw" and its superb use of Catwoman's very distinctive leitmotif. This didn't have anything to compare to that.
Interesting that WB still defaults to casting Tom Kenny as Eel O'Brien even when he's not Plastic-Man.
I still find the animation mediocre, and I'm not a fan of the way the characters' eyes are designed; they often seem to be staring rather lifelessly. Also, the character designs for Montoya and Dr. Quinzel are too similar-looking.
The music is also disappointingly generic. Watching the scene of Batman chasing Catwoman across the rooftops, I couldn't help comparing it unfavorably to the opening sequence of B:TAS: "The Cat and the Claw" and its superb use of Catwoman's very distinctive leitmotif. This didn't have anything to compare to that.
Interesting that WB still defaults to casting Tom Kenny as Eel O'Brien even when he's not Plastic-Man.
Episode 4: I'm not much of a fan of "Batman vs. the police" stories, but this one was okay. An interesting look at the seeds of the alliance between Gordon and Batman, though in the modern idiom of decompressed storytelling. A good story for developing the Gotham PD characters, unsurprisingly since Ed Brubaker wrote it, though Batman himself still gets little development or dialogue. There are hints that Bullock isn't quite as far gone into corruption as Flass, since he has doubts about Flass's plan, so it's possible they'll give him a redemption arc like the original comics and Gotham did.
Episode 5: An effective new twist on Harley Quinn. It definitely reminds me of how Harley was portrayed in the 2002 Birds of Prey TV series, a seemingly reputable psychiatrist who's secretly the mastermind creating supervillains, but this version of Harley has a more benevolent motive, basically an activist targeting the rich and punishing them for their greed. (Which casts her interest in prolonging Bruce Wayne's sessions in a new light.) I like the justification for her costume, saying that the kings have had their day and the jesters are taking over. It's got some interesting resonances, since jesters/fools were known for having the privilege to ridicule and speak truth to power with impunity. It's like they went back to basics, looking into the history of jesters to find a basis for building their new version of Harley from the ground up.
And yes, to get back to the previous discussion, it's obvious to me why this was Harley instead of Hugo Strange or Jonathan Crane as suggested earlier. In addition to what I just mentioned about jesters, a lot of the key elements of Harley's character are there, just in a different way -- she's a psychiatrist, she likes to laugh and joke, she's into women, she's an empathetic and potentially redeemable villain, etc. Plus the story's emotional core depended wholly on her friendship with Babs and her nascent romance with Montoya, which wouldn't have worked with a male character. (Not to mention that Babs would've had little chance of holding the weight of a grown man for even a moment.) And her activism-motivated crimes are reminiscent of Poison Ivy, with whom she's closely associated.
She's still way too easy to mistake for Montoya on first glance; they even wear nearly the same color jacket. I can't say I'm a fan of the show's character designs. (Which, contrary to what I said earlier, are apparently more James Tucker's work than Bruce Timm's, though they're clearly Timm-influenced.)
Episode 5: An effective new twist on Harley Quinn. It definitely reminds me of how Harley was portrayed in the 2002 Birds of Prey TV series, a seemingly reputable psychiatrist who's secretly the mastermind creating supervillains, but this version of Harley has a more benevolent motive, basically an activist targeting the rich and punishing them for their greed. (Which casts her interest in prolonging Bruce Wayne's sessions in a new light.) I like the justification for her costume, saying that the kings have had their day and the jesters are taking over. It's got some interesting resonances, since jesters/fools were known for having the privilege to ridicule and speak truth to power with impunity. It's like they went back to basics, looking into the history of jesters to find a basis for building their new version of Harley from the ground up.
And yes, to get back to the previous discussion, it's obvious to me why this was Harley instead of Hugo Strange or Jonathan Crane as suggested earlier. In addition to what I just mentioned about jesters, a lot of the key elements of Harley's character are there, just in a different way -- she's a psychiatrist, she likes to laugh and joke, she's into women, she's an empathetic and potentially redeemable villain, etc. Plus the story's emotional core depended wholly on her friendship with Babs and her nascent romance with Montoya, which wouldn't have worked with a male character. (Not to mention that Babs would've had little chance of holding the weight of a grown man for even a moment.) And her activism-motivated crimes are reminiscent of Poison Ivy, with whom she's closely associated.
She's still way too easy to mistake for Montoya on first glance; they even wear nearly the same color jacket. I can't say I'm a fan of the show's character designs. (Which, contrary to what I said earlier, are apparently more James Tucker's work than Bruce Timm's, though they're clearly Timm-influenced.)
Mixed feelings on the Gentleman Ghost episode. I would've preferred them to leave out the supernatural, since I prefer Batman as a more grounded character, and detective stories don't mesh well with inexplicable or arbitrary supernatural phenomena. But I like the timely theme of the villain being a wealthy anti-democracy oligarch who steals from the poor to enrich himself. And it was interesting to see this aloof version of Batman learning to appreciate Alfred more.
I was thinking Bruce's car phone was an anachronism, but apparently the first car phones were introduced in 1946, so it's borderline. A more definite anachronism was the small size of the newspapers.
I was thinking Bruce's car phone was an anachronism, but apparently the first car phones were introduced in 1946, so it's borderline. A more definite anachronism was the small size of the newspapers.
That’s what a multiverse is for.
In addition to having Harley be her own woman—I’d like this program (or current THE BATMAN movies) either not have a Superman, or for a “depowered” hero…like a little seen movie called NUNZIO:
en.m.wikipedia.org
I can see that inspiring writers in the way VANISHING POINT (may have) influenced THE BATMAN’s current ride.
As for the current animated series…in the same way MY ADVENTURES WITH SUPERMAN did a younger Luther correctly…if the Joker is introduced at all, it might be nice to see him drawn a bit like David Bowie.
He might actually need to be the voice of the hard times of the period glossed over currently—but part of his backstory.
One recent comic had him almost like Nyarlathotep…
In addition to having Harley be her own woman—I’d like this program (or current THE BATMAN movies) either not have a Superman, or for a “depowered” hero…like a little seen movie called NUNZIO:
Nunzio (film) - Wikipedia
I can see that inspiring writers in the way VANISHING POINT (may have) influenced THE BATMAN’s current ride.
As for the current animated series…in the same way MY ADVENTURES WITH SUPERMAN did a younger Luther correctly…if the Joker is introduced at all, it might be nice to see him drawn a bit like David Bowie.
He might actually need to be the voice of the hard times of the period glossed over currently—but part of his backstory.
One recent comic had him almost like Nyarlathotep…
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That'd be a nice tie-in to an Arthur Fleck version of Mr. J.
A Fleischer style Superman with roughly the same power level as he had in 1938? Yes, please.
Episode 7: I'm uneasy with this one. Is it saying Barbara is wrong to think that criminals can be redeemed? I have a hard time believing that a black Commissioner Gordon in the '40s could believe that criminals are always irredeemable scum instead of being victims of the system.
As for Onomatopoeia, this depiction of him was rather dull. Just a guy who talks in sound effects? The only way that would've worked is if they'd cast Michael Winslow. Really, there was no reason for the head of the hit squad to be a costumed villain at all. Or at least, they could've made him Deadshot instead of reducing Lawton to a cameo.
Episode 8: I wasn't expecting Nocturna to be a teenager, and in Wednesday Addams cosplay to boot. McKenna Grace did a good job with her voice; she reminded me a lot of Tara Strong.
Turning the Robins into orphans was a cute idea. I love it that Carrie was the toughest one.
I'm not sure that people in the '40s would've been as suspicious about a man looking for two girls as people would be today. We've become hypersensitized to the danger of sexual predation, but back then, it was generally assumed that adults' interest in children was benevolent and protective. Sure, I suppose it's possible that carnival workers might have more exposure to the seedy side of life, but I think that by 1940s standards, a well-dressed, upper-class man like Bruce would've been given the benefit of the doubt and expected to be reputable. That kind of class distinction was still prominent then.
As for Onomatopoeia, this depiction of him was rather dull. Just a guy who talks in sound effects? The only way that would've worked is if they'd cast Michael Winslow. Really, there was no reason for the head of the hit squad to be a costumed villain at all. Or at least, they could've made him Deadshot instead of reducing Lawton to a cameo.
Episode 8: I wasn't expecting Nocturna to be a teenager, and in Wednesday Addams cosplay to boot. McKenna Grace did a good job with her voice; she reminded me a lot of Tara Strong.
Turning the Robins into orphans was a cute idea. I love it that Carrie was the toughest one.
I'm not sure that people in the '40s would've been as suspicious about a man looking for two girls as people would be today. We've become hypersensitized to the danger of sexual predation, but back then, it was generally assumed that adults' interest in children was benevolent and protective. Sure, I suppose it's possible that carnival workers might have more exposure to the seedy side of life, but I think that by 1940s standards, a well-dressed, upper-class man like Bruce would've been given the benefit of the doubt and expected to be reputable. That kind of class distinction was still prominent then.
But in a "1940s" where a black man can be a police commissioner would that logic still hold?
In episode 4, the mayor said on the phone that he'd given Gordon the commissioner job for the sake of good press, implying that there are still racial barriers and the mayor was trying to demonstrate his inclusiveness. We've also seen that the male police officers aren't crazy about having Montoya promoted to detective. So while the depiction of the period's prejudices is muted, it's implicit that they're still present to a degree.
"Root causes" of crime wasn't really a thing people believed in the 40s, at least not to the extent they do today.
In "Bonfire of the Vanities," Tom Wolfe suggested that, whatever their actual background, all law enforcement officers eventually “turned Irish.” Back during the early years of "Law and Order" Dick Wolff opined that even his "liberal" characters who worked in the police and prosecutor offices, tended to be conservative when it came to crime and criminals.
If each of the above was the case in the 80s, it is hardly outside the realm of believability that a beat cop in the 30s and 40s who rose through the ranks, even an African American one, would have developed a high degree of cynicism about crime and criminals.
But which people? The establishment mentality isn't necessarily shared by disadvantaged groups.
Also, I think you're wrong; keep in mind that these were people who'd recently lived through the Great Depression, when people had to struggle to survive. Much of the population had directly experienced poverty and hardship within the past 10-15 years, so it makes no sense to say they wouldn't understand how social circumstances might drive people to crime.
Not to mention that the postwar '40s were a very progressive time compared to the '50s, and there were a lot of people with liberal values advocating change and reform. Remember that Superman, in his early comics and his postwar radio series, fought against government and corporate corruption in defense of the poor and disadvantaged. There was a widespread understanding in the '40s that corruption and organized crime were rampant in government and police, which is why the Green Hornet on radio was a vigilante pretending to be a gangster, with only one trusted ally in an otherwise compromised police force. (Frank Miller pretty much cribbed the Green Hornet's premise directly for Batman: Year One.)
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A style developed for B: TAS, a style continued in "Superman: The Animated Series" (though on white paper) which is in the same universe as B: TAS. A style continued in "Batman Beyond", which is the same universe as the previous two. A style continued in "Justice League", which is the same universe as the previous three shows. Yes, he has used it on all those shows, but it's the same universe; same Bantam, same Superman, crossovers ("Justce League", for example, had an entire episode that was largely just a "Batman Beyond" love letter). It made sense that way, but outside that...?
No, it's just Bruce Timm's own personal style, which he uses in everything he does. For instance, here's a Pinterest page of his sketches of characters from Marvel, DC, Vampirella, etc.:
A web search will also easily turn up Timm's abundant "good girl" pinup art of scantily clad or nude women, which is also done in exactly the same art style as his DCAU work.
And of course he used a 3D version of his design style in Green Lantern: The Animated Series, which was not in the DC Animated Universe (though it's considered "adjacent" to the Young Justice universe, in that events mostly similar to it took place in YJ's continuity).
I really do not understand your premise that it doesn't "make sense" for an artist to use the same style in different continuities. Jack Kirby didn't invent a new style when he moved from Marvel to DC. Neither did John Byrne or Frank Miller. If anything, DC hired them because they wanted them to use their familiar, famous styles from Marvel in their DC work. By the same token, Chuck Jones's art style in his Tom & Jerry cartoons or How the Grinch Stole Christmas was the same as his art style for Warner Bros. Matt Groening uses the same style in The Simpsons, Futurama, and Disenchanted. This is normal, so where in the world did you get this bizarre belief that there's something wrong with it?
Not to mention that, as I already said, Caped Crusader's art style is not exactly Timm's usual style, since James Tucker is the main character designer, so it's basically a hybrid of Timm's and Tucker's styles.
Sketches does not equal TV series.
If you can point to me some other series or direct-to-video Batman/Batman related project he did in the style, not connected to the B: TAS style, then I can see your point. I honestly lost interest in his later projects after seeing clips years ago and cannot recall appearances.
If you can point to me some other series or direct-to-video Batman/Batman related project he did in the style, not connected to the B: TAS style, then I can see your point. I honestly lost interest in his later projects after seeing clips years ago and cannot recall appearances.