Barnes and Noble is up for sale

[Robert Maxwell]

This is completely incorrect and you seem to be confusing HDTV with DTV OTA broadcasts and the retiring of analog OTA. The FCC has not mandated anything involving HDTV in the way that you describe and some OTA broadcasts are still in SD... and with a digital converter box (which there was even a government coupon program for) you can continue to use an SDTV indefinitely. It hasn't been pushed down anyone's throat.

You can't choose to watch TV without at least the box. The programming wasn't there to support mass sales of the HDTV hardware, so the industry got the government to "retire" analogue with the express purpose of selling people "newer" (and more expensive) HD products. They had the government create a market that didn't need to be there, just so they could force complete obsolescence on SDTV.

What I really don't understand is why you feel it's necessary to use backhanded insults such as "circuit heads"? Is the very existence of HDTV offensive to you in some way?

The term was meant to be descriptive (in this case of high-end users), not derrogatory.

Sorry, but your description of the DTV conversion is misinformed at best, and outright BS at worst. Digital transmission is more efficient and has a larger feature set, and switching to DTV also allows the radio spectrum to be used more efficiently. If you are seriously suggesting the transition was mandated in order to sell HDTVs, that's just hilarious, since the government was giving away converter boxes (with those rebate cards.)

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Firstly, Robert, I have to say that "technophile" like my previous use of "circuit head", was meant descriptively, not as a put down. And you, if anyone I've ever met, fit the textbook definition of "technophile". I've never seen you decry anything technological. Cloning, "frankenfoods", e-commerce in general, and now e-books in particular, just a few examples of your advocacy of unfettered technology.

The ability to remotely delete books is not a necessary part of any ebook platform. Don't confuse the technology itself with specific platform implementations.

Any time you open up your storage to read/write options, you risk someone either putting something in that shouldn't be there, or taking out something that should. That is inherent to all "e" technology. The potential for abuse is too great to be understated. A million e books can be made to vanish with the stroke of a few keys. A million REAL books will never be eliminated entirely.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Sorry, but your description of the DTV conversion is misinformed at best, and outright BS at worst. {/quote}

I rather avidly followed what was being said and by whom at the time of the debate. There were many people saying just what I said: that the switch to digital was nothing more than a stunt to sell new hardware.

Digital transmission is more efficient and has a larger feature set, and switching to DTV also allows the radio spectrum to be used more efficiently.

Rationalization...the fact that it puts a period on the end of the life/sentence of analogue, forcing people sooner or later to buy new hardware is just a co-incidence I'm sure...

If you are seriously suggesting the transition was mandated in order to sell HDTVs, that's just hilarious, since the government was giving away converter boxes (with those rebate cards.)

Those boxes only came after there was a firestorm of complaints from people who didn't want to or COULDN'T afford the $500+ for a decent size HDTV. They threw the public a bone, and the public bought it and stopped "barking".

 

[Lindley]

The analog-to-digital conversion occurred because we were (and still are) quickly running out of bandwidth in the EM spectrum to allocate. Analog TV transmission took up something like 100x more bandwidth than digital transmission, so the government decided to mandate the change so that bandwidth could be resold. The "free" converter boxes were actually paid for by the proceeds of that sale.

If anything, the HDTV people piggybacked on the switch to digital as a way of pushing HD sales.

 

[Arrqh]

I rather avidly followed what was being said and by whom at the time of the debate. There were many people saying just what I said: that the switch to digital was nothing more than a stunt to sell new hardware.

Then you were paying attention to people who were similarly misinformed. Everything you have said about the DTV transition is factually wrong. Indeed it seems like a lot of what you are saying is being twisted to support an anti-technology viewpoint especially since you think the actual reason for the transition is an after the fact rationalization. Further, your claim that the free DTV boxes were "throwing a bone" to people who couldn't buy HDTV's is completely nonsensical... originally (and still currently) companies were planning on selling those boxes, which just adds another layer of factual incorrectness to your argument.

If you're not going to listen to us, then please at least attempt to education yourself on the topic by going to some less biased sources then the ones you currently seem to be favoring.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Permanency of form has another useful attribute. Once a physical book gets out, any attempt to surpress it faces an overwhelmingly high uphill struggle. You can take a paper book and cut it up and hide a few pages here, a few pages there. Share the rest out to friends who do the same. The tyrant who want's your book now has to track down HUNDREDS of pages (out of just ONE copy) instead of clicking a few computer buttons and erasing files.

You're right, because with the internet it's THAT easy, that's why naked pictures of celebrities don't seem to last...wait, oh, that's right, they DO.

The internet is FOREVER.

All of my ebooks are on MY hard drive, which a tyrant DOES NOT have access to.

 

[Teelie]

What happens when (not if) your harddrive fails? Those are far less permanant and lasting than a physical copy. eBooks with their DRM and the increasingly common demand you be connected online to use them (it's another "combat piracy" provision) means they can delete them or deny you access to the book if they choose to. And breaking that DRM is illegal.

While darkwing does go overboard, he's still right that a physical copy is far less easy to lose than a digital copy.

 

[Professor Zoom]

What happens when (not if) your harddrive fails? Those are far less permanant and lasting than a physical copy. eBooks with their DRM and the increasingly common demand you be connected online to use them (it's another "combat piracy" provision) means they can delete them or deny you access to the book if they choose to. And breaking that DRM is illegal.

While darkwing does go overboard, he's still right that a physical copy is far less easy to lose than a digital copy.

what happens when my house burns? Or floods?

As for what happens when my hard drive fails? Well: I back up regularly AND I also have things stored in "the Cloud". So, unless Nuclear War happens, I feel pretty safe. Of course, if Nuclear War happens I'll have a different set of priorities than if my ebooks survived.

 

[Arrqh]

Digital copies can easily be backed off site or redownloaded if necessary. In some ways, digital is easier to lose but in others it can be far more permanent because there's nothing special about your copy. If your house burns down, then you've lost all your physical books but your B&N or Amazon account is still intact.

Further, there is no form of eBook DRM that requires a device to be connected to the internet 100% of the time. That simply isn't feasible with our current level of technology.

 

[KB24]

I see the conveniences of ebooks and readers for the industry, obviously, but I agree there were always be a market for book lovers and goers. I think its incredibly sad that our society puts books lovers in a niche market- we have huge closets and clothing organizers but having an entire home library filled with books is now passe!

 

[Teelie]

And what happens when that digital copy is invalidated because the company that you licensed it from (this is a key point so many people forget, you are licensing a copy, you don't own a copy) goes under or is bought out by competition and is deactivated as an obsolete format? You'll have no recourse to keep it because it's been remotely invalidated. That's the problem with the system today; they can do that whenever they feel it's in their best interests. Whether they will or not is a moot point when they are given the ability to remotely disable your access. Some of them even require you to subscribe or pay a monthly/yearly fee to keep your book collection.

If your house burns down, you'll have equally more important concerns than whether your books are safe or not. And if it does burn down the chances are good you'll lose that digital copy too if it's somehow no longer avaliable online but still on your harddrive and accessible without being crippled by DRM.

 

[Professor Zoom]

And what happens when that digital copy is invalidated because the company that you licensed it from (this is a key point so many people forget, you are licensing a copy, you don't own a copy) goes under or is bought out by competition and is deactivated as an obsolete format? You'll have no recourse to keep it because it's been remotely invalidated. That's the problem with the system today; they can do that whenever they feel it's in their best interests. Whether they will or not is a moot point when they are given the ability to remotely disable your access. Some of them even require you to subscribe or pay a monthly/yearly fee to keep your book collection.

If your house burns down, you'll have equally more important concerns than whether your books are safe or not. And if it does burn down the chances are good you'll lose that digital copy too if it's somehow no longer avaliable online but still on your harddrive and accessible without being crippled by DRM.

I like how you keep finding more and more ways to say that something will go wrong.

1. 100% of my ebooks are in the public domain. Because I paid for my Nook before the price drop, I paid a pretty penny, so I decided I wasn't going to buy an e-book for some time.

2. In your hypothetical, if Barnes and Noble, or whomever I would have purchased from (the nook can use a lot of different formats) were to be sold, I wouldn't be surprised if a part of the sale was a guaranty that licenses would continue.

3. I don't know how my Nook will not be able to read files that are currently on there (becoming obsolete.) I would understand if I bought a new one a few years later that it might not be able to read old files (like a new version of Word not being able to read older files) but then (like Word) there will probably be conversion programs.

4. I know I am buying a license. Techincally, when one is buying a copy of the book, they too, don't actually own the book, the own a licensed COPY of the book. Like I own a digital copy of the book.

5. There is no monthly fee with the Nook, the Kindle, or the Sony reader (well, I can only truly speak for the Nook, but my research before buying, none of the e-readers had a monthly fee.)

6. If my house burns down, I can get to my e-books from any computer connected to the internet. As I said, I have my files backed up to a Cloud (zumo drive in this case). I have some important personal files that really I don't want to see lost, and the books, too, are backed up.

Now, I still buy plenty of real books. The e-reader hasn't replaced my books. I just moved and the movers can attest. But I do think it's really interesting the passion of those that dislike e-books.

 

[Venardhi]

Every book on my nook is unlocked from the B&N system, and most of them never came with any DRM at all because I got them from public sources. I'm weary of 'licensing' so anything I get is immediately unlocked and backed up.

The big kurfuffle about the Kindle books being deleted remotely were because someone was illegally posting content on the kindle system that they had no legal right to publish. The cost of those titles were refunded too, so it isn't like they lost anything, they just had to buy the legal copy instead. If people want to pirate books they'll have to do it outside the systems put in place by Amazon and B&N, etc. Boo hoo.

As long as you get an ePub reader and understand how to unlock the books from the 'account' with whatever store you're using, there is literally no legal way for them to remove files from your system remotely, legally purchased or not.

I highly doubt anyone who is a big enough reader to want an eReader won't still buy books from time to time anyways. I still have an ever-growing library on my shelf, but it includes a lot fewer of the mass markets I used to blow through in a night or two and never read again.

 

[Amaris]

Every book on my nook is unlocked from the B&N system, and most of them never came with any DRM at all because I got them from public sources. I'm weary of 'licensing' so anything I get is immediately unlocked and backed up.

The big kurfuffle about the Kindle books being deleted remotely were because someone was illegally posting content on the kindle system that they had no legal right to publish. The cost of those titles were refunded too, so it isn't like they lost anything, they just had to buy the legal copy instead. If people want to pirate books they'll have to do it outside the systems put in place by Amazon and B&N, etc. Boo hoo.

As long as you get an ePub reader and understand how to unlock the books from the 'account' with whatever store you're using, there is literally no legal way for them to remove files from your system remotely, legally purchased or not.

I highly doubt anyone who is a big enough reader to want an eReader won't still buy books from time to time anyways. I still have an ever-growing library on my shelf, but it includes a lot fewer of the mass markets I used to blow through in a night or two and never read again.

What I love about the idea is carrying an entire library of books to read anytime I want.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Every book on my nook is unlocked from the B&N system, and most of them never came with any DRM at all because I got them from public sources. I'm weary of 'licensing' so anything I get is immediately unlocked and backed up.

The big kurfuffle about the Kindle books being deleted remotely were because someone was illegally posting content on the kindle system that they had no legal right to publish. The cost of those titles were refunded too, so it isn't like they lost anything, they just had to buy the legal copy instead. If people want to pirate books they'll have to do it outside the systems put in place by Amazon and B&N, etc. Boo hoo.

As long as you get an ePub reader and understand how to unlock the books from the 'account' with whatever store you're using, there is literally no legal way for them to remove files from your system remotely, legally purchased or not.

I highly doubt anyone who is a big enough reader to want an eReader won't still buy books from time to time anyways. I still have an ever-growing library on my shelf, but it includes a lot fewer of the mass markets I used to blow through in a night or two and never read again.

What I love about the idea is carrying an entire library of books to read anytime I want.

When I was in India for 6 weeks, it was AWESOME.

 

[Teelie]

And what happens when that digital copy is invalidated because the company that you licensed it from (this is a key point so many people forget, you are licensing a copy, you don't own a copy) goes under or is bought out by competition and is deactivated as an obsolete format? You'll have no recourse to keep it because it's been remotely invalidated. That's the problem with the system today; they can do that whenever they feel it's in their best interests. Whether they will or not is a moot point when they are given the ability to remotely disable your access. Some of them even require you to subscribe or pay a monthly/yearly fee to keep your book collection.

If your house burns down, you'll have equally more important concerns than whether your books are safe or not. And if it does burn down the chances are good you'll lose that digital copy too if it's somehow no longer avaliable online but still on your harddrive and accessible without being crippled by DRM.

I like how you keep finding more and more ways to say that something will go wrong.

Now, I still buy plenty of real books. The e-reader hasn't replaced my books. I just moved and the movers can attest. But I do think it's really interesting the passion of those that dislike e-books.

Yeah, because clearly you haven't given it thought or considered the ramifcations. I'm not saying eBooks are bad, I'm saying the implementation we have right now is.

 

[Professor Zoom]

And what happens when that digital copy is invalidated because the company that you licensed it from (this is a key point so many people forget, you are licensing a copy, you don't own a copy) goes under or is bought out by competition and is deactivated as an obsolete format? You'll have no recourse to keep it because it's been remotely invalidated. That's the problem with the system today; they can do that whenever they feel it's in their best interests. Whether they will or not is a moot point when they are given the ability to remotely disable your access. Some of them even require you to subscribe or pay a monthly/yearly fee to keep your book collection.

If your house burns down, you'll have equally more important concerns than whether your books are safe or not. And if it does burn down the chances are good you'll lose that digital copy too if it's somehow no longer avaliable online but still on your harddrive and accessible without being crippled by DRM.

I like how you keep finding more and more ways to say that something will go wrong.

Now, I still buy plenty of real books. The e-reader hasn't replaced my books. I just moved and the movers can attest. But I do think it's really interesting the passion of those that dislike e-books.

Yeah, because clearly you haven't given it thought or considered the ramifcations. I'm not saying eBooks are bad, I'm saying the implementation we have right now is.

No. YOU feel I haven't given thought or considered the ramifications. I feel otherwise. I am perfectly confident that my ebooks are just as safe, if not more, than my physical books, as I explained up thread.

 

[Pingfah]

I rather avidly followed what was being said and by whom at the time of the debate. There were many people saying just what I said: that the switch to digital was nothing more than a stunt to sell new hardware.

Then you were paying attention to people who were similarly misinformed. Everything you have said about the DTV transition is factually wrong. Indeed it seems like a lot of what you are saying is being twisted to support an anti-technology viewpoint especially since you think the actual reason for the transition is an after the fact rationalization. Further, your claim that the free DTV boxes were "throwing a bone" to people who couldn't buy HDTV's is completely nonsensical... originally (and still currently) companies were planning on selling those boxes, which just adds another layer of factual incorrectness to your argument.

If you're not going to listen to us, then please at least attempt to education yourself on the topic by going to some less biased sources then the ones you currently seem to be favoring.

I'm sorry but it's clearly a conspiracy that everyone isn't still sitting around watching analogue TV on 4:3 25" Cathode Ray Tube Televisions, just like that ridiculous "Talkies" business.

And don't even get me started on colour. What kind of suckers do they take us for?!

 

[Othello]

I'm appalled at the use of the Kindle and whatnot. There is somethig enjoyable about being able to see your collection on display and show it off to others.

 

[CorporalClegg]

^
And some of us don't care so much about vanity.