"BALANCE OF TERROR" Question -- RE: Romulans?

[comicbookwriter]

A beaker full of death said:

TeutonicNights said:
Also, some of those colonists seem to have built the monastery of P'Jem a millenium before Surak came(but of course we don't really know what P'Jem was like before the Awakening).
That would be an interesting twist:
If those colonists had actually invented the philosophies that Surak later brought to Vulcan (maybe his was an altered, more radical form), and the Romulans would see the Vulcan philosophies as heresy.

What the fuck?
Does anyone around here want to discuss TOS? I don't know what this happy horseshit is.

TeutonicNights said:
On the other hand it would make sense Spock is just misleading everyone here.
...But he chose not to reveal it to his captain at this time.

What fucking bullshit.
If anyone wants to discuss the episode as it was written and acted, PM me. I opt out of this nonsense.

Dude, are you five years old or something?

We ARE discussing TOS. Why on Earth are you getting upset because there may be evidence that Spock knew more about Romulans than he was letting on?

Why is this a bad thing for you?

Go outside, take a breath of fresh air and repeat the following...

"Its just a TV show."
"Its just a TV show."

Repeat until it sinks in.

CBW

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Ronald Held said:
Vulcans are pacifists, but will kill for a logical reason(that does not involve personal gain).

Which means they're not pacifists. Or maybe the word is poorly translated, since on Earth, a pacifist is someone who will not kill, even in self-defense. I can imagine how completely illogical the Vulcans think THAT is.

Vulcan, like Earth, had its agressive colonization period, savage even by Earth's standards. If Romulans retain this martial philosophy then we dare not show weakness

I've always taken that quote to mean that Spocks thinks of the Romulans AS the colonists - they left Vulcan to go somewhere, presumably. Vulcan was still martial and aggressive at the time, but undergoing a change of philosophy. But it's odd phrasing if that's the explanation.

The alternative means we have to wonder what happened to all the Romulan-esque Vulcan colonies that predate the Rommies leaving in a huff. Did they ALL vanish? The Mintakins certainly didn't seem like they had any sort of "martial" beginning tho I guess they could have changed.

Or maybe we can integrate it all together? The Romulan dissidents stopped off at the existing Vulcan colonies, told them the Mother Planet had gone all mushy, and they all went off together to find a new home away from Surak's pesky influence. Certainly the colonies would have been in communiation with Vulcan and knew what was going on.

 

[Sharr Khan]

My observations are that Vulcans talk a better game than they play. They weren't so pacifist in DS9 or ENT. They believe in pacifism when it's logical, let's put it that way.

Logic and pacifism are not synonymous with one another that is and logic is often fluid. Now have all that bound up with a species maintaining a fleeting control over a bubbling primal core.

I suppose the rebel Vulcans might have made the argument it isn't logical to deny their inherent natures.

Sharr

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The Romulans only need to point to the natural world and predator and prey relationships to find all the logic they want in violence and militarism. Not that Surak wouldn't have a point - restraining violent impulses also have benefits. It's not at all clear who should win that debate.

But I do know that pure pacifism is not at all logical, since taken to an extreme, it results in the extermination of pacifists. A self-exterminating philosophy cannot be logical.

 

[Sharr Khan]

Frosty the Vorta said:
The Romulans only need to point to the natural world and predator and prey relationships to find all the logic they want in violence and militarism. Not that Surak wouldn't have a point - restraining violent impulses also have benefits. It's not at all clear who should win that debate.

But I do know that pure pacifism is not at all logical, since taken to an extreme, it results in the extermination of pacifists. A self-exterminating philosophy cannot be logical.

I agree Vulcans tend to use logic when it suits their ends which is why I was never particularly bugged by how Enterprise depicted the Vulcans since they behaved in my opinion more like a species of "logical beings" probably would.

Honor & Pacifism are in many ways counter to pure objective logic.

Sharr