Babylon 5

[Reverend]

Another factor may be that the character in question was herself a bad actor. She's a political officer, which if you know anything about what went on in Russia & China (among others) following their revolutions you'll be familiar with exactly this kind of rehearsed yet unconvincing diatribe of party rhetoric.
IIRC the Chinese especially in the early days post-revolution, had these little amateur dramatic show trials (that were quite literally scripted) where some unfortunate academic got political slogans shouted at them by a bunch of young party members (sometimes former students) all trying to out zeal one another with every shade of false righteous fury you can imagine. All under the pretext of showing how their teachings are "reactionary propaganda" and other such nonsense.

In short: I always just assumed that she didn't buy a word of what she was selling.

 

[Tim Walker]

In universe propaganda broadcasts tended to come across as sleazy, rather than professional.

 

[Reverend]

^Keep in mind this is a post-war world. A war I might add that pushed Earth to the very brink of extinction. A large percentage of the human population who were adults at the time (read: most people over 30) would have been drafted into service.

In a climate like that, people tend to be less cynical about that sort of thing. Just look at some of the western government propaganda that came out of the 50's. It's not subtle.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I like the dialogue in Babylon 5, but then I like stylized writing in general. There's nothing wrong with so-called naturalistic dialogue in principle, but I prefer writing that sounds like it was written by somebody who knows how to write. Like Twilight Zone. Theatrical is one way to describe it. I like writers with a recognizable voice, whether it's Shakespeare or Stan Lee.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'm not a fan of JMS' speechifying either, but I find it MUCH less grating than Joss Whedon's "everyone is a smartass" kind of dialogue.

 

[theenglish]

I like the dialogue in Babylon 5, but then I like stylized writing in general. There's nothing wrong with so-called naturalistic dialogue in principle, but I prefer writing that sounds like it was written by somebody who knows how to write. Like Twilight Zone. Theatrical is one way to describe it. I like writers with a recognizable voice, whether it's Shakespeare or Stan Lee.

I agree with you on this--it dates the show less than series that try to sound hip and contemporary.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ That's a good point as well.

 

[Marsden]

I never had a problem with the dialogue. I enjoyed it.

 

[RandyS]

I never had a problem with the dialogue. I enjoyed it.

Yep. Same here.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I like the dialogue in Babylon 5, but then I like stylized writing in general. There's nothing wrong with so-called naturalistic dialogue in principle, but I prefer writing that sounds like it was written by somebody who knows how to write. Like Twilight Zone. Theatrical is one way to describe it. I like writers with a recognizable voice, whether it's Shakespeare or Stan Lee.

Nothing wrong with stylized dialogue. Sorkin is a master of it. Yet his dialogue still sounds naturalistic, if stylized. It has rhythm and pitch like music.

At times JMS's dialogue feels as if it's trying too hard. Other times, it's beautiful — like when G'Kar speaks. Sometimes it's crushed under the weight of exposition.

For me, it's hit or miss. Sometimes I feel he nails it. Other times it's plain corny.

I agree with you on this--it dates the show less than series that try to sound hip and contemporary.

I don't think it's about sounding hip and contemporary. For me, it's about sounding naturalistic. It doesn't have to be how people actually talk. That's the opposite of good dialogue.

There's a subtle difference between being naturalistic and realistic. Fiction should strive for the former not always the latter. Verisimilitude is a better way of putting it.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Also registering a dislike for jms' speechifying / monologuing habits in his character scenes - all too frequently it comes off as people speaking AT each other rather than TO each other. I often feel it's less like two people having a conversation and more like two people waving Throne Speeches in each others' faces and hoping someone makes a decision based on it. The CONTENT is great, but the way people speak to each other never felt really natural to me.

Ditto for jms' habit of having a group of extras being led by a single speaking character, who makes decisions for the whole group of people without conferring or even looking at his supposed peers in the course of a scene. That always drove me nuts.

Mark

 

[Forbin]

The little jms dialog quirk that irritated me for a while (I got used to it), was his way of opening a scene with a character saying "And..." It's a gimmick to show the audience that we've joined a conversation in progress. I think he overused it - it felt like it happened in every episode. "...and the food allotments to down below are running late." "...and bravo patrol returned safely." "and I think I got the stain out of my space briefs too!" That kind of thing.

 

[JWPlatt]

How about just one more thing before walking through a door to leave?

 

[CorporalClegg]

To me, the dialog has always had a classic film quality to it. It also had a very specific cadence to it, almost poetic in away. It worked well for the sweeping monologs but often weighed-down the conversation. Furlan was really the only able to regurgitate it with any consistency. And, despite being a wizard with the speeches, even Kats stumbled on the convo from time to time.

I have only been casually lurking with this thread so far, but seems like OP is coming up on the mid season trilogy, which I think is the high-point of the show. "Severed Dreams" remains one of my ten--if not five--favorite episodes of television ever.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

The little jms dialog quirk that irritated me for a while (I got used to it), was his way of opening a scene with a character saying "And..." It's a gimmick to show the audience that we've joined a conversation in progress. I think he overused it - it felt like it happened in every episode. "...and the food allotments to down below are running late." "...and bravo patrol returned safely." "and I think I got the stain out of my space briefs too!" That kind of thing.

My bigger problem with that dialogue quirk is that the actors weren't directed or filmed as if they were in the middle of a conversation. It's as if they were just standing on their marks waiting to deliver those lines.

 

[B.J.]

Yes, JMS does tend to write speeches more than dialogue, but he does throw in the occasional "Up yours!" to contrast!

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Yes, JMS does tend to write speeches more than dialogue, but he does throw in the occasional "Up yours!" to contrast!

I was always fond of "Absou-fraggin'-lutley!"

 

[Kail]

I have only been casually lurking with this thread so far, but seems like OP is coming up on the mid season trilogy, which I think is the high-point of the show. "Severed Dreams" remains one of my ten--if not five--favorite episodes of television ever.

I'm half way through "Exogenesis"

 

[RJDiogenes]

There's a subtle difference between being naturalistic and realistic. Fiction should strive for the former not always the latter. Verisimilitude is a better way of putting it.

Yes, indeed. Verisimilitude is always preferable to realism, because art is a always a construct no matter how it is intended to come across to the audience. Even the most naturalistic approach to dialogue, complete with stuttering and overlapping sentences, in most cases, is carefully calculated and rehearsed. So verisimilitude is really the key.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I hate fiction where the plot is mostly driven by characters withholding information from others for no apparent reason - looking at JJA's oeuvre as a major offender. I don't think JMS has been guilty of this.