Babies in prison

[wamdue]

and the kids go to a professionally staffed nursery.

The babies should not be punished for their mothers' crimes and I think allowing them to stay with a mother who loves them would usually be a better than placing them in the welfare system.

thats one bit I dont understand, they getting a nursery staff? thats crazy if the babies are in prison so they can be with there mothers, why are they not with there mothers?

as for the general idea of babies being prison, I dont think its anything anyone really wants, but if you give into that kind of talk, every woman convicted of a crime will get pregnant so she doesn't have to go to jail. Fine stick the women in this kind of unit for 6 month, then put them back in regular jail, and the kid either to its dad or social services & if mum objects well if she had not committed a crime she would have been free to spend all the time she wanted with the baby, so its her own fault.

As for these women breaking out of baby jail, they obviously dont appreciate being able to spend time with there kids, so take the kids away from them, and send them to regular jail.

and yeah this sound like a lifetime movie, only all the women in it are innocent, and are victims of domestic volience, and are probaly being sexually harrased by the guards

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Both my children went to daycare from age 1 while both their mother and I worked. Both children are intelligent, well socialized, playful, co-operative, loving and well attached to both parents.

Sending children to daycare/nursery school is not punishment. It is not even remotely a negative experience.

 

[FordSVT]

I know prison should be punishment for the mother...

Personally, I have no interest in prison being for punishment. IMHO, prison should serve two purposes:
Rehabilitation, which should include education and skills training, substance abuse programs, psychiatric councelling as well as basic exercise and life skills like personal finance, household budgets and time management.
Protection for Society, which should keep offenders off the streets until they can show that they are not likely to reoffend. For some offenders, that may take a week, for some 20 years, for some never. It should not be tied to the severity of the crime, except where it would be absurd like someone stealing an apple and showing no remorse.

Prisons should be clean, basic but not unpleasant. If they were all about what I describe, then there's no reason a baby or toddler shouldn't be there with it's mother for a short period, it should be no different an atmosphere than a boarding school.

The problem for a child, as opposed to a baby, is that they will get little or no socialization with other children, unless there is some kind of on-site daycare with multiple age groups, which isn't a given (depends on whether enough mothers are incarcerated). An older child will also get a stigma of being a "prison child", or have to lie like hell when they are moved into the regular school system.

So I would say a cut off age around 3 would be appropriate, but there should be no reason, in a system set up they way I'd want, why there couldn't be regular extended visits.

This isn't a thread about the philosophy behind why we send people to prison, and I don't disagree with what you said about those being integral part of prison life, but me saying "prison is punishment" is not incorrect. People get sent to prison because of an illegal act they committed. It's a punishment. Of course rehabilitation is important, but lets not lose the forest for the trees here. The gist of my statement was that many would view being able to keep one's baby with them in prison a "reward" or special privilege that would diminish the punishment, that's why I began with my qualifier.

And, quite frankly, the legal system would fall apart without sentencing guidelines. I don't see any way of getting around that. No mandatory sentencing, but you can't send people who did various crimes to prison for indefinite amounts of time "until the get better". No way, no how.

 

[Holdfast]

"Babies in prison"

Damn right. Fuckers pissing and shitting where they like, puking up on people, and bawling at the top of their lungs. Stick them in prison and throw away the key.

Mary Poppins would slap the shit out of you for that.

My dreams are made of this....

 

[Miss Chicken]

and the kids go to a professionally staffed nursery.

The babies should not be punished for their mothers' crimes and I think allowing them to stay with a mother who loves them would usually be a better than placing them in the welfare system.

thats one bit I dont understand, they getting a nursery staff? thats crazy if the babies are in prison so they can be with there mothers, why are they not with there mothers?
/QUOTE]

The babies are into a nursery so that the mothers can attend class so that they have a chance of making it on the outside when they are being released. The mothers, the babies and society in general should benefit from the mothers being educated.

as for the general idea of babies being prison, I dont think its anything anyone really wants, but if you give into that kind of talk, every woman convicted of a crime will get pregnant so she doesn't have to go to jail. Fine stick the women in this kind of unit for 6 month, then put them back in regular jail, and the kid either to its dad or social services & if mum objects well if she had not committed a crime she would have been free to spend all the time she wanted with the baby, so its her own fault.

What if Dad or other family members are unwilling or unable to take the children. How can it possibly benefit any child by being turned over to social services and placed into a very broken faster system?

No-one is saying that these mothers should go to jail just that if they have been convicted of a non-violent crime they should be able to have their children with them in a dedicated unit. Expense shouldn't be a concern as it is probably cheaper in the long than the child going through the foster system.

It is certainly the woman's fault that she committed the crime but it just as certain it wasn't the child's fault. If the child is going to suffer more by being taken away from his/her mother than by being raised in a dedicated prison who is that fair to the innocent child?

 

[FordSVT]

^What about a single father and an infant?

Something tells me people wouldn't be so quick to allow a man to raise his baby in prison, or create an infrastructure that would allow for it.

 

[Miss Chicken]

^What about a single father and an infant?

Something tells me people wouldn't be so quick to allow a man to raise his baby in prison, or create an infrastructure that would allow for it.

I know that in some South American countries fathers are allowed to take children into prison. I see no reason why men convicted of non-violent crimes shouldn't be allowed to take a child into a dedicated prison, in a separate wing from the women, unless these units specifically only allow babies that are being breastfeed

 

[wamdue]

^What about a single father and an infant?

Something tells me people wouldn't be so quick to allow a man to raise his baby in prison, or create an infrastructure that would allow for it.

given a choice some people would not wants fathers involved in there kids lives at all, other than to give money once a month, be that in or out of prison.

 

[Hermiod]

^What about a single father and an infant?

Something tells me people wouldn't be so quick to allow a man to raise his baby in prison, or create an infrastructure that would allow for it.

given a choice some people would not wants fathers involved in there kids lives at all, other than to give money once a month, be that in or out of prison.

Children don't have fathers in the United Kingdom anymore anyway, they have "second parents".

 

[wamdue]

^What about a single father and an infant?

Something tells me people wouldn't be so quick to allow a man to raise his baby in prison, or create an infrastructure that would allow for it.

given a choice some people would not wants fathers involved in there kids lives at all, other than to give money once a month, be that in or out of prison.

Children don't have fathers in the United Kingdom anymore anyway, they have "second parents".

I have not heard that, but I fear you are telling the truth