Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

[Admiral_Young]

Finally. A decent issue. Hickman!!! I actually enjoyed this issue, first one from the series that I have. Was nice to see Charles again. They must have forgot that Charles has been on Utopia before. He was there I believe in the X-Men: Schism Prelude when Scott was contemplating his decision on what to do prior to the Sentinel strike. We finally know now what the No More Avengers teaser seems to be about. This is just heating up. Hell...I liked pissed off Phoenix Summers. Maybe it was because Hickman was writing. I like the Olivier art. He's been the best artist so far on this book, also finally....Wanda enters the picture.

 

[Aldo]

I'm reading the Trade of Avenger's Assemble and I've come to really like The Scarlet Witch. So I'm eager to see how she's handled in this mini.

As an aside, I'm bummed that she's owned by Fox, cause I'd love to see her show up in a MCU film.

 

[Admiral_Young]

There was an article earlier in the year stating that it seems that both Fox and Marvel Studios can use Pietro and Wanda.

You should also know (if you're not aware) that this is something of a return for Wanda...she really returned in the Avengers Crusade story that finally finished just before Avengers Vs X-Men started.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Haven't read the issue yet, but from reading your review it seems my theory that Scott will either be killed or become a villain at the end of this thing seems more credible.

There has been some foreshadowing that Scott might die. In WaTXM, he said to Wolverine something to the effect of, "I'll lead my people to the promised land even if it's denied to me."

 

[Hound of UIster]

I'm reading the Trade of Avenger's Assemble and I've come to really like The Scarlet Witch. So I'm eager to see how she's handled in this mini.

Is that the one by Busiek?

I have get some bad news, but

Spoiler: ....

she turns insane get and becomes a villain in Bendis's first Avengers story. She later depowers all the mutants and is missing for a few years before everything just got retconned this year.

 

[DarthPipes]

I really enjoyed this issue. I have to say it was pretty epic, worthy of a Marvel event. They should let Hickman write the entire series and not let Fraction and Bendis stink it up any longer.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Well, things are finally getting interesting. I don't see this ending well for the X-Men or Cyclops in particular. Now that we have reached the second part of the story, it seems like the entire first act could have been done in two or maybe three issues rather than five, but that's par for the course these days. I haven't been a big fan of Hank McCoy since he left the X-Men, but find it appropriate that he is the first to realize that both sides are off their rockers and walk away.

New Avengers 27 was interesting. Wrapping up (?) the story of Fonji, the Phoenix host from hundreds of years ago, and segueing into the modern day with Hope in K'un L'un with Iron Fist and Yu Ti. No explanation is given for how Hope wound up there when last we saw her was in Wanda's care, but it was an interesting issue. The revelation that Spider-Man is the one who needs to train Hope for what's to come was an interesting twist and Bendis gave Hope and Peter some interesting (non-romantic) chemistry together.

Avengers Academy 32 was OK. Other than their appearances in AA, I am totally unfamiliar with Juston and his sentinel, so it was hard for me to care when Emma showed up to slag it. Emma-Phoenix seemed rather reasonable about re-programming the sentinel until Juston's rather strange declaration of love for the thing caused Laura to attack Emma. While I liked the previous arc involving the Generation Hope/New X-Men kids, this arc is starting out a little flat. I'll be glad when AA moves past AvX and into the "Final Exam" arc.

Uncanny X-Men 14 was intriguing. Mr. Sinister has always been a "meh" kind of villain for the most part, but I enjoy Gillen's take on the character. Dustin Weaver's art was incredible and makes me even more anxious for Marvel to finally release the final two issues of SHIELD. Sinister's plan to take on the Phoenix Five is ingenious. How better to take on five Phoenix hosts than with six clones of THE Phoenix host, Jean Grey (AKA "Madelynes")?

 

[Turtletrekker]

Spoiler: The implications...

, ...the X-Men are going to be even more hated than they were...

As foreshadowed in Uncanny X-Men 3.

 

[Mr Light]

I wish they hadn't jumped the story forward from the end of 5 to the opening of 6. I feel like there was another important issue in there. The Avengers' reaction to the Phoenix Five, trying to attack them at first and being utterly defeated, the Phoenix Fives' first humanitarian actions...

 

[Aldo]

I really enjoyed this one as well. I do wish they tried to tell a more compelling story earlier, rather than just having fanboyish mash-ups, but there you go. I think this is the first time where I'm genuinely eager to see what happens in the next issue.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Every issue is written by a different author?

Wikipedia has 5 writers attached the project.

What's the split?

Liking this weeks means nothing.

Each writer was given a brief of which plot points that they had to touch and then they consulted their editors about how much latitude they wanted to infuse the story with 'original' material.

This is how they make TV.

It's why when a two parter comes out, one half sucks a lot more than the other.

but buying next weeks issue that isn't Hickman is hardly a reason just because Hickman rules, especially since in 6 weeks when the next Hickman issue comes out, unless he was collaborating with the other writers ex parte to interlock this stuff popper, he had minimum confirmation on what the final products looked like between his issues.

Which in a post Skype world is pisseasy.

I'm surprised their isn't a dedicated channel just for writers to weave 616 with a little more cohesion... But then Rich Johnston would be out of a job.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Indeed. Marvel's "Architects" are sharing the writing load and have each act of the event divided up amongst themselves. Doesn't really seem to be any specific pattern behind it that I've detected. Let's see:

Avengers Vs X-Men #1 (Brian Michael Bendis)
Avengers Vs X-Men #2 (Jason Aaron)
Avengers Vs X-Men #3 (Ed Brubaker)
Avengers Vs X-Men #4 (Jonathan Hickman) (Hickman!!!!)
Avengers Vs X-Men #5 (Matt Fraction)
Avengers Vs X-Men #6 (Jonathan Hickman) (Hickman!!!!)
Avengers Vs X-Men #7 (Matt Fraction)
Avengers Vs X-Men #8 (Brian Micheal Bendis)
Avengers Vs X-men #9 (Jason Aaron) (Spider-Man centric issue)
Avengers Vs X-Men #10 (Ed Brubaker)
Avengers Vs X-Men #11 (Brian Michael Bendis)
Avengers Vs X-Men #12 (Jason Aaron)

Interesting that Jason Aaron gets to write the finale issue. The sad thing to me is that we only have two Hickman written issues.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Not as interesting as you think.

Methinks that the final-battle will be won or lost, won and lost in issue 11.

Issue 12 is probably about Aftermath.

Like the last 5 hours of the 3rd Lord of the Rings Movie.

How screwed over and fucked up all the characters are due to the finalizing consequences generated form issue 11.

This mini is all about Bendis transitioning from Avengers to X-Men right?

It's possible that for some time he thought that he was writing the final issue when he was really in fact putting 11 to bed?

 

[Admiral_Young]

The only reason why I thought it was interesting Aaron was writing the finale is that he is also the writer of "Wolverine and the X-Men" which is not being affected by the creator musical chairs this fall. Bendis writing Uncanny X-Men and X-Men has not been confirmed yet and is just rumors...but yeah it would seem this event is partially to do with that transition.

 

[hyzmarca]

Avengers Academy 32 was OK. Other than their appearances in AA, I am totally unfamiliar with Juston and his sentinel, so it was hard for me to care when Emma showed up to slag it. Emma-Phoenix seemed rather reasonable about re-programming the sentinel until Juston's rather strange declaration of love for the thing caused Laura to attack Emma. While I liked the previous arc involving the Generation Hope/New X-Men kids, this arc is starting out a little flat. I'll be glad when AA moves past AvX and into the "Final Exam" arc.

Sentinals are sapient(ish) beings. Erasing it's mind or destroying it, the result is the same, Emma's unprovoked attack was nothing less than an attempted murder.

Indeed, Emma's systematic destruction of all the Sentinels on the planet was itself nothing less than genocide. While she has very good reasons for her prejudices, the fact remains that her actions were entirely unethical, and could easily constitute a war crime of epic proportions.

And that brings us to the crux of the matter. Cyclops, Collossus, and Magick, and even Namor are good people with high ideals. Sometimes they make compromises, but their motivations are always positive. Emma, on the other hand, is an amoral bitch who has no high ideals. She does what's best for Emma, the rest of the world can burn for all she cares. Heck, the last time the Pheonix was in town she conspired with Jason Wyngard to mindrape Jean and control her for their own benefit. That plot lead directly to several billion deaths and she never really gave a fuck. She reformed because a cushy and overpaid teaching job was simply safer than supervillainy, not because she believed in Xavier's ideals. Giving her that kind of power is not a good idea.

Cyclops and Colossus will both die for their ideals. They've done it on screen. Magkick and Namor, are also willing to sacrifice themselves when necessary. Emma isn't. If it ever came to be that she would benefit more from destroying the Earth than she would from not destroying it, she wouldn't hesitate for a second.

Previously she was kept in check by the fact that the Earth is where she keeps all of her stuff. Now it just holds the largest collection if her enemies. Somebody needs to kill her before she figures that out.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Out today, Avengers Vs. X-Men #7 from Fraction and Coipel:

Cyclops changes the game with these three words: "No More Avengers!"

After issue #6, which was probably the high-point of the series to date, issue #7 returns us to familiar ground -- it's a "meh" issue. Which is ironic; this is probably the densest issue to date, and there's some interesting stuff happening here. Cracks are starting to form in the Phoenix Five. Tony Stark blames himself for Earth's current situation.

What lets the issue down from issue #6, I think, is that the philosophical dimension from the previous issue isn't here. The tagline for this issue -- "No More Avengers!" -- isn't precisely right. Sure, Cyclops brands the Avengers as a "global terrorist organization." Sure, the X-Men take the battle to the Avengers on multiple fronts (and one escalates the conflict at issue's end). But it's not a wholesale destruction of the Avengers to parallel the wholesale destruction of mutants when the Scarlet Witch said, years ago, "No more mutants."

One of Marvel's editors recently said that it was wrong to view the X-Men as the villains of AVX, but it's increasingly difficult not to. However, no one ever thinks of themselves as the villain in their own story, so perhaps it's natural that the Phoenix Five (and the X-Men who blindly follow their leadership) see nothing wrong with what they've done. Cyclops views the remaking of the world as a good, after all.

This issue reminded me of Final Crisis, strangely, with the Phoenix Five in the role of Darkseid and his minions and the Avengers in the role of the resistance to Darkseid's reign. But I'm also reminded of Michael Avon Oeming's "Disassembled" storyline in Thor, especially when Iron Fist shows up with someone in tow talking about cycles of death and rebirth, because maybe the solution is to end the cycles of death and rebirth once and for all (just as Thor destroyed the cycle of Ragnarok once and for all in that storyline).

Final thought. I suspect that maybe this issue felt "meh" to me because, despite several battles between the Avengers and the X-Men, this very much felt like the "calm before the storm." The Avengers were on the run in this issue, and with the escalation at the end there's no now place left for them to go.

Oh, and going back to an older post...

Methinks that the final-battle will be won or lost, won and lost in issue 11.

Issue 12 is probably about Aftermath.

No, I'd think that Marvel would be likely to do a follow-up series like Fallout (post-"Death of Spider-Man") or The Fearless (post-Fear Itself) to deal with the aftermath of Avengers Vs. X-Men.

 

[Guy Gardener]

As far as ALL of the fallout is concerned, they're shuffling the creative teams and knocking back the numbering of the flagship titles to number one... There are degrees of fallout.

Do you really believe that Bendis is not going to deliver the coup de grace on this story?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Do you really believe that Bendis is not going to deliver the coup de grace on this story?

Yes.

Longer answer. Bendis is leaving Avengers after AVX. I think he would want his final statement on the Avengers to be there (in Avengers and New Avengers) rather than in Marvel's big summer event. Leave on the story he wants to tell on his terms, not on the story that has a dozen cooks.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I really don't keep track of these things any more under the hood, but the final book in this series is the launching point for Bendis' new X-Men title as much as his farewell from so many, many, many, Avengers books. making sure that no one fucks up his entry into the Mutant comics seems little more important than playing scorched earth with the Avengers leaving Hickman a clean slate to work off.

We'll find out in a month.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I really don't keep track of these things any more under the hood, but the final book in this series is the launching point for Bendis' new X-Men title

No, it's not.

as much as his farewell from so many, many, many, Avengers books

No, it's not.

making sure that no one fucks up his entry into the Mutant comics seems little more important than playing scorched earth with the Avengers

You're assuming that Bendis would play "scorched earth" with the Avengers when he leaves. Say what you will about the quality of his stories, but no one can deny that Bendis loves the Avengers. He's not going to burn them to the ground just because he's leaving.