Running after the murdering unstoppable Ebony Maw, jumping on an alien spaceship after being told not to, to save the wizard. That's what wusses do.
Spoilers Avengers: Infinity War grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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How many Spidermans have there been in the past so many years? They just keep making a new one. He'll be back in one form or another. In one timeline or another.So? You can't take 10 deaths seriously out of 50 thousand trillion deaths?
Still sounds like a win to me.
Just one.
Miles Morales, who had his origin in 2001, premiering close to Toby's first Spider-Man movie.
Unless you want to count Spider-Gwen?
(In a Mirror Universe, it is Peter's "Girlfriend" who was bitten by the radio active spider at the point of origin, but the world knows her as Spider-Woman, even though her adventures are funhouse mirror skewed version of the comics form the 1960s.)
Or Kane and the Scarlet-Spider? 2 clones of Peter Parker lurking around since the original Clone Saga in the early 70s.
Or the entire Spiderverse storyline where dozens of Spider-people fought hundreds of Electros and Doctor Octopuses on many multiple Earths... But who all returned home when they finished.
Silk?
Meh.
Miles Morales, who had his origin in 2001, premiering close to Toby's first Spider-Man movie.
Unless you want to count Spider-Gwen?
(In a Mirror Universe, it is Peter's "Girlfriend" who was bitten by the radio active spider at the point of origin, but the world knows her as Spider-Woman, even though her adventures are funhouse mirror skewed version of the comics form the 1960s.)
Or Kane and the Scarlet-Spider? 2 clones of Peter Parker lurking around since the original Clone Saga in the early 70s.
Or the entire Spiderverse storyline where dozens of Spider-people fought hundreds of Electros and Doctor Octopuses on many multiple Earths... But who all returned home when they finished.
Silk?
Meh.
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Within the MCU, just the one. Within that storyline he's the only one we've ever met and the only one any of those characters have any inkling of because he's the only one who's ever existed. I get your point the emotional impact is diluted by the media saturation but should that really impact on the way this particular story was told? I don't know.
It kind of does make a difference. If I think or am told there is going to be a sequel or an ongoing character theme in the franchise or its Universe, I truly factor that in to the scene. I can't help it. Peter and the Guardians and Black Panther are likely to be back in some way or another.
I feel sorry for Rocket the most because he is (visually) so cute.
I feel sorry for Rocket the most because he is (visually) so cute.
To be honest I can apply that logic quite coldly to many of the characters we saw go in that sequence, but the reality of Peter's behaviour actually hit me quite hard, precisely because it rang true.
I can't claim to have much experience of seeing people die (I can think of five), but I've been around a an awful lot of people who believe they are about to or are even actively pursuing it in some form. Of those only two had (for me) any semblance of the sort of dignity or heroism we see in films as being de rigeur. In my world it tends to involve tears, urine, snot and indignity, not speeches.
Peter was a little boy, his courage that of a child trying to impress a parent. He was brave because he wanted to be seen that way, to show Tony how he was worthy of his approval. Seeing him realise where that had brought him, seeing him found out, exposed as a child terrified in a world where the adults, the heroes, even the gods couldn't cope and sobbing to Tony to make it all stop was pretty powerful.
I can't claim to have much experience of seeing people die (I can think of five), but I've been around a an awful lot of people who believe they are about to or are even actively pursuing it in some form. Of those only two had (for me) any semblance of the sort of dignity or heroism we see in films as being de rigeur. In my world it tends to involve tears, urine, snot and indignity, not speeches.
Peter was a little boy, his courage that of a child trying to impress a parent. He was brave because he wanted to be seen that way, to show Tony how he was worthy of his approval. Seeing him realise where that had brought him, seeing him found out, exposed as a child terrified in a world where the adults, the heroes, even the gods couldn't cope and sobbing to Tony to make it all stop was pretty powerful.
For me the thing that makes the "finger-snap" deaths significant (despite knowing full well most, if not all of them will be back) is the idea that depending on where Marvel is going with this; they may come back with the memory of having died. Remember that they didn't just instantaneously wink out of existence, they felt themselves disintegrate.
That could potentially have massive consequences for individual character development. Hell, Tony's two *near* death experiences have driven his character arcs over the course of the 10 years and 8 movies he's been featured in.
That could potentially have massive consequences for individual character development. Hell, Tony's two *near* death experiences have driven his character arcs over the course of the 10 years and 8 movies he's been featured in.
I've been thinking about the same thing, particularly in regards to Spider- Man. Considering how he reacted to dying, that experience and then coming back to life will have a tremendous impact on how he views everything. Because of that aspect, I'm grateful his next film will come out so soon after The Untitled Sequel and explore those issues. Undoubtedly, if nothing else, he'll become more mature for someone his age and probably won't have such a strong need to seek approval from Tony Stark. And that's just scratching the surface.
Each character will have different reactions to the experience and they'll all be interesting to explore but, for me, Peter's will be the most intriguing. That said, seeing how Wanda will handle it is almost on that same level because she looked almost relieved to feel the sweet embrace of death after being forced to kill Vision only to see him revived and then die in vain. I also expect Vision to actually stay dead (or if he does come back, he'll be very different) so for her to die only to survive with the guilt and knowledge of what happened to Vision will tear her apart.
Another factor may be the passage of time. Will time be reset, or will those returning miss a whole year? More to the point, will those not dusted remember a whole year in a depopulated universe? For example: how would that effect Aunt May? Will T'Challa return to find Shuri as Queen of Wakanda and the new Black Panther?
Yeah, I tend to agree that Vision will stay dead, if for no other reason than loosening loved ones is kind of Wanda's whole thing. Same for everyone else that wasn't dusted, with the exception of Gamora as I suspect part of Thanos's arc for the next movie will involve him retrieving her from the soul stone, and if I'm right, taking her place.
I wouldn't be surprised if Loki somehow shows up again eventually, but probably not for several years and almost certainly not in A4.
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I find it amusing that the general assumption seems to be that Spider-Man Homecoming 2 is going to take place post-Infinity War AND post-Avengers 4, and the reason I find it amusing is that it requires ignoring something that we've known ever since the Sony/Marvel partnership deal was first announced: Sony wants a solo Trilogy of Spider-Man films featuring the character in High School.
There's a 2-year gap - despite the dating error made in SMH1 - between SMH1 and Infinity War, leaving a place for both SMH2 and SMH3 to slot into in-universe and simultaneously leave Peter in HS during their events.
There's a 2-year gap - despite the dating error made in SMH1 - between SMH1 and Infinity War, leaving a place for both SMH2 and SMH3 to slot into in-universe and simultaneously leave Peter in HS during their events.
I actually hope the MCU Spiderman 2 takes place RIGHT AFTER (IE picks up from Aunt May's: "Peter Parker!...What The F...!"
^^^
I really want to see how that scene played out and have it on the screen.
Then how about BOTH of you - @crookeddy and @Spot261 - back off from each other before you escalate things needlessly beyond that line?
I can't remember who (but I think it was Kevin Feige), but it has already been stated that the Homecoming sequel is set directly after The Untitled Sequel and that's why some of us having been discussing how that the film would be effected by those events.
Edit: Here we go (from Amy Pascal):
Right now, Spidey is in the MCU and it's just Spidey. Civil War, Homecoming, we've already shot a lot of Tom Holland's scenes in the upcoming Avengers films, and we're just starting to solidify our plans for Homecoming 2 - we won't call it that, whatever it is - which is exciting because it'll be the first MCU movie after untitled Avengers in 2019. It'll be the way Civil War informed everything in Homecoming, those movies will launch him off into a very new cinematic universe at that point. Those five movies are we're focusing on.
Mind you that's from about a year ago and they seem to be still in the planning stages for the Homecoming sequel, but it's also clear that intention at that time is to have the two Avengers movies inform the Homecoming sequel in the same way Civil War did for Homecoming.
I think there was a more recent quote than that one so I'll keep looking around.
Edit again: Here's a much more recent quote from Kevin Feige that reinforces what Pascal said:
The way Civil War and the fact that he went to Leipzig Airport and then has to go back to school, informed Homecoming, the two Avengers films that precede [the sequel] will greatly inform, probably even more so, the next movie.
So yeah, I think it's safe to keep assuming the Homecoming sequel is set immediately after The Untitled Sequel.
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Yeah, I really need to see how that plays out.I actually hope the MCU Spiderman 2 takes place RIGHT AFTER (IE picks up from Aunt May's: "Peter Parker!...What The F...!"
^^^
I really want to see how that scene played out and have it on the screen.
The MCU has already cast two actors to portray James Rhodes and two actors to portray Bruce Banner aka the Hulk.
So, the next Spider-man movie should be set about roughly 18-19 months before "Infinity War". Re-arranging the timeline again.
See my edited post above: Kevin Feige says the Homecoming sequel is set immediately after The Untitled Sequel.
It's not re-arranging anything. There's no reason to believe the MCU Spider Man 2 HAS to take place after Avenger's Infinity War. It could definitely take place before it without having to re-arrange anything.
Regarding the debate about Groot's parentage, an actual botanist, James Wong, has weighed in on the subject on Twitter:
I stand corrected regarding the clone aspect.
Baby Groot is the result of a form of asexual reproduction known as vegetative propagation.
Plants, unlike most animals, retain their stem cells through their lives. So cloning them is super easy.
Baby Groot is therefore a perfect genetic clone of Big Groot.
‘Son’s’ tend to only share 1/2 their DNA with their parents. So this analogy is tricky. Genetically they are one and the same, more like identical twins.
(Unless, of course, Baby groot was actually grown from the pollen/spores/seeds emitted by Groot in the crash landing scene?)
If it was indeed pollen in that scene, it would suggest there is a mysterious ‘Lady Groot’ character we have so far not seen.
However, as many (most?) plants are simultaneously male and female, it is highly likely that we all have our pronouns wrong here!
And finally, as we now know even Earth plants can process complex information about the world around them & retain it without the need for a centralised storage organ like animals need (ie a brain).
If Baby groot is a cutting, it is likely it retains Big Groot’s memories!
Plants, unlike most animals, retain their stem cells through their lives. So cloning them is super easy.
Baby Groot is therefore a perfect genetic clone of Big Groot.
‘Son’s’ tend to only share 1/2 their DNA with their parents. So this analogy is tricky. Genetically they are one and the same, more like identical twins.
(Unless, of course, Baby groot was actually grown from the pollen/spores/seeds emitted by Groot in the crash landing scene?)
If it was indeed pollen in that scene, it would suggest there is a mysterious ‘Lady Groot’ character we have so far not seen.
However, as many (most?) plants are simultaneously male and female, it is highly likely that we all have our pronouns wrong here!
And finally, as we now know even Earth plants can process complex information about the world around them & retain it without the need for a centralised storage organ like animals need (ie a brain).
If Baby groot is a cutting, it is likely it retains Big Groot’s memories!
I stand corrected regarding the clone aspect.
